The baby, the rules, and the traders…something different
Im going to say a bunch of sentences’as usual’that dont make any sense to most people’as usual. I normally like to build into a big reveal, but after the last couple discussions, Im going to be blunt.
Please remember, this is a theory in the works’but Kim called me out, so I cannot wait. Ive thrown some ideas out about the baby, but this’this is unexpected, even for me.
1)The baby is Faraday. Yeah, I know who his Mom is right now, but we knew who Johns mother was, and Kates father, and most important to the idea, we knew that Ben was Alex’s father. There is definetly something about the children on Lost being raised by ‘others’, take it how you want to take it, but others non the less. So heres the lowdown. There is something to the children on Lost, and further, there is something with ‘others’ stealing children. I think there is a reason for it. I picture the others needing children because they cannot reproduce. Maybe they think they need a child for acceptance from Jacob. That would be my logic to why Ben stole Alex.
IU think we may see, the others possibly steal Faraday as a child, give him to Hawking, or maybe she is the theif, and take him off island due to some issue with the war or chaos that ensues on the island. I think we may at some point, see Amelia and she may come into contact with Faraday or even just tell Juliet that she had a son. Yeah, I know, thats why its not a theory yet.
Regardless, I think this may be why Faraday and Charolette have their connection, they are both ‘islanders’ at heart. They may have even known each other as children, off the island. Miles is most likely Changs child, and that would about cover the freighter folk being born on island.
Why wouldnt Dan be Hawkings son? Big answer needed, I know. Have we seen Dharma people, have childbirth problems, nope, just others. I dont think that they are capable of procreation, whether its because they are dead, or in a loop, or out of their ‘true’ time. This may impact some of the Losties, for the simple reason that some of them are possibly children of ‘Others’. Remember Jack and Sarah’s discussion way back in season 2. She said something about a pregnancy test, and said ‘dont worry, negative’. I think that the island itself has nothing to do with pregnancy trouble, only for people who are where they shouldnt be. I know, Christian is popping kids like rabbits, but I feel there may be explanation to come on that, just as evidence to support this whole thing soon.
While Im on the whole Dharma/Others topic, I would like to tackle something else. The rules. I dont think the rules have squat to deal with ‘time’ or ‘games’. I think the rules that Ben or Charles changed/broke is the truce on the island.
‘You changed the rules’ ben said.
‘you changed them first’ Charles replied/
One, if the rules are in fact the truce of the island, how would Ben have changed them first?
Time travel. The best part. If correct, Ben hasent even changed them yet in his timeline. He could change them back in the 70’s and not even realize what he did. He could kill/killed Penny, and informed a younger Charles Widmore. This could be Chucks problem with Ben, and the beginning to their feud. Maybe he killed Penny (if she is even his daughter) and either told him about it in his future, Widmores past. Or if he didnt kill her yet, maybe Des brings her to the island and Charles learns this is his daughter’then Ben could cause the changing of the rules.
The rule in question would most likely be’
No women and children, or no family to be injured or killed, something along those lines.
I think that many people posed as spies, as spoken, and eventually showed their true colors, or just plain jumped ship.
These are the traders I expect to learn about soon’
1)Ben’we already know that he switched, the question is why.
2)Widmore’Ive said before that i smell trouble between he and Ricky in the 50’s. Between his lack of believing Locke, or even the allowance of young Ben, or maybe even older Ben into the Others may have pushed him to the Dharma side.
3)Amy’I thought they were going to kill her. Highbrow, among others, pointed to the fact of why they would bag her’
(BTW, anyone see the stillshot from one of the videos of Degroot standing somewhere with someone ‘bagged’? if not, check it out, interesting stuff after seeing this past episode’same type of Bag even.)
To take her somewhere. But where? The others are wise to not leave trail. They could fear that someone saw and if they realize Amy is in cahoots, they could blow the whole thing.
And last, but certainly not least’
4) John Locke’John, man of faith, the true destined leader of the others. Charles telling John that he needs to be on the island for the war that is coming, and more importantly, that he needs to be on the right side. This and the fact that the Losties are playing Dharma right now would lead me to believe one of three things.
1) John is going to take the others side with intentions of hurting/killing fellow Losties.
2) The Losties will jump to the others, and help destroy the D.I.
and the 3rd is what I expect’
3) Joh realizes the error to his way. He thinks the whole show that the others are his people. He thinks that he is ‘supposed’ to do this. The thing is, he doesnt even know what this is. He doesnt know what the reason is, or what the outcome could meean. All he knows is he is supposed to lead, and save the island.
This is the point where I think faith will make its triumphant comeback and trounce science. This is where I think John fullfills his destiny and becomes the islands true leader, not the others, the islands. This is where I think the past’will change. I believe the first time Locke helped the others in a behind the scenes role, wipe out Dharma. He may have helped kill the Losties, and all of the D.I.. But I think that with the likely possibility of Dr, Desmond Manhattan taking the stage on Lost island, he may gain the knowledge necessary to change the past on a more permanent basis than Charlie living another day.
Sorry to post a theory in your theory Kim, but I like the challenge of making heads spin, I’ll accept any day of the week.
I have said before that most of my thoughts, I try to make debunkable, until the show does it at least, and I feel no different on this one. I said before I started, I might not be right, but I’ll make you think, before I am wrong.
It would also fit that Horace would be the father, both he and Faraday are smart enough to be related, Horace being a Mathematician and all, neither very big, and appear in a sort of geeky hippie fashion. Kind of that same pause when they speak or explain things. I dont know, its something new and thought I might get a few buyers.
So on that, what do you think’am I walking the right path, or am I just being good ol’AES, overanalyzing and storytelling again?
I admit, its not the theory I am most confident about, just trying to find something that we wouldnt just be able to figure out, but could also make sense at this point. A few variations of some hot topics right now. I am aware the best shot at the baby being someone is Ethan, I just choose not to accept it until it is forced upon me.
AES, I love the fact that you consistently challenge my ‘grey matter’. lol
Once again, some amazing thoughts!
I will address the children and pregnancies, which seem to be a very hot topic right now. Some amazing theories from username and brondar1.
Something is extremely odd with ‘the others’ inability to procreate. What is even odder, is that they appear to raise children that are not their own!
Some of this may be attributed to the infamous ‘purge’. What I feel username has hit on is, when the button in the Swan Station started to be pushed! That will be interesting to see what year that began in.
I believe the children, were removed from Dharma, and raised by ‘the others’, perhaps just prior to ‘the purge’. In other words, they were spared.
I feel this may have started the problems with ‘the others’ inability to procreate, but am not ruling out, other reasons which have been raised are the reason, either. They are all amazing thoughts for us to consider.
It now makes sense to me, that Ben was telling the truth, about not knowing the Swan Stations’ function or that anyone was in there. Perhaps, as username and brondar1 have stated, this could have been the cause.
I have some thoughts, why the button started to be pushed, but that is for another day.
*** Your Quote “I don’t think that they are capable of procreation, whether its because they are dead, or in a loop, or out of their
I think the biggest, most important detail in my whole theory is the part on Jack. Jack and Sarah seemes almost like they tried to have a child at some point, or at least she wanted to. I get it was slipped in to show differences in them, and problems arising, but with the scenario on the island, and the Sun/Jin situation, I am really beginning to believe that the island is not causing it. Remember my theory on Children, blank pages, there were a few in a row. Y: the last man, started the idea of the men actually having the problems, and the island being the cure. It may not be just the men, but I think the issues will turn out to be a bit different than we are led to believe. We see that both Sarah and Sun are capable of pregnancy, Sarah couldnt with Jack, at least off island, and Sun couldnt with Jin off island. Im not saying time travel doesnt make some factor in the whole thing, just that there is more to it than a 52 year old womb, in a 20 someyear olds body.
AES, one more thing, I’d like to mention on this subject.
It now makes more sense to me, that if Ben was unaware of the Swan Station, they would be unaware of the ‘time’ issue problems it presented in terms of bearing children.
Now we know why Juliette was recruited! On another side note about Juliette’s recruitment. She was drawn to ‘the island’ and had no success, until she goes back in time, when she successfully delivers Amy’s baby.
And, they say ’cause and effect’ has no meaning on Lost!
Believe that when you see ‘pigs fly’ and my screen name is changed to ‘dadudeishere’! lol
I didn’t see your last comment, before I posted again.
I would not argue that point with you. Need some time to think on that one.
I talk to much sometimes, lol, where did i say that? lol, I say too many dumb things to remember where, lol…dude..
Juliet is there, because…oh man…i HATE realizing that im wrong about something.
Either way Juliet delivered a baby on the island. She was probably revered to the others upon arrival as much as Locke…damn, I really dont want this baby to be Ethan…sorry thinking on the keyboard again..
One more parting thought, on the men being the ones who are affected, as opposed to the women.
This is just a random thought, off the top of my head, so forgive me if it doesn’t sound right.
What if, as we have been discussing of late, that the men (the losties) turn out to originate from ‘the others’ and the women, originated from Dharma??
Good marriage of the two, maybe!
Okay, it took a few reads, AES, but there is some good stuff in here.
Dang it. Pushed the “submit” button again, too soon. (Wish I could come up with some witty analogy to the island, but I can’t…too late…)
It has now been solidified in my mind that the only fertility issues are in the Others camp.
Where I am distracted – wavering in thoughts between your theory here and my theory this originally appeared on…it has to do with Christian and Jack. And somewhat Widmore…
Is Christian an Other?
Because if he is, then would he be the exception to the pregnancy problem? Which contributes to why the Shephard line is so special?
I know I am oversimplifying something here.
Okay, another strange and random thought: (I’ve been reading your posts, too much evidently!) 😉
Locke turning the FDW was realigning the wheel/island on its axis. What will realign the coexistence of two island groups? A unity between the offspring? If Jack is one of (or perhaps the only) true offspring from the line of the Others, then what resolves, or realigns the truce/island’s stability?
Okay, check this out for a theory within a theory.
Carole Littleton = DHARMA
So Claire could be one option for realigning, but Jack might need to be the other…or something like that.
Doesn’t Littleton sound like a Dharma last name?
Dabsi, great thought on the other/dharma connection.
Kim, thanks, I tried to make you head spin, not sure if it worked out that way, but thats the best I have at the moment. I dont have much more to go on with Amelia, Just a bit more would help.
So then there’s Widmore and Penny + Desmond.
I like some of the rules of the truce having to do with not touching family or children. That seemed obvious, in a way, when Alex was killed – but at the same time, the obvious could be where there is a major clue to a much deeper meaning.
So when Penny arrives for Widmore will seem to be pretty important, following your line of thinking here.
Oh, I didn’t see Dabs comment. I think we’re thinking similar and so now I’m convinced we’re on to something.
Kim, simoposting with me. You know, with no evidence behind it and really nothing to even really try for valididation…yes, now that you say it, it really does sound like a Dharma name, whatever that is, lol. I dont know why…thats wierd, nice call.
And yes, if you cannot think a straight thought without some crazy but possible thought arising with little to no connection, but still having it make sense in a twisted way, and you dont really know why…you are reading my theories too much.
They are a lot to take in, but after understanding that my thought process jumps like a timetraveling island, you can ALMOST take something from it and find a good original idea…which is what you just gave us…Littleton, thats so strange…
If Carole is Dharma, where does that leave Christian?
We think he’s Other-ish. Right?
But this lineage would definitely give more weight to Aaron’s issues as devil-child or the “DON’T YOU DARE BRING HIM BACK” stuff…
Back to your post though…sorry.
I have a dreaded feeling you are right about some of the choices that Locke might make, which both irritate me and make me feel sorry for him at the same time. It could be the perfect pinnacle of the faith vs. science test to see what he does knowing all that he knows now, including that Jack ultimately believed him.
I have a few thoughts about Faraday as the child. Your reasoning behind it is quite sharp – all the connections of “raised by another” stuff. Especially if our accented Eloise ‘took’ him, in a way.
I think one of my immediate problems with it being him is that his nose should have bled like Charlotte’s, right?
I know he needs a constant and all, given that we know who his constant is…so in a way it could go to either side – he needs a constant because now (as in 1974-77 – or where we are at currently in Season 5) is that he actually has spent quite a bit of time on the island, most likely working with all the ‘properties’ of the island that would mush his brain….
I don’t know I have more thoughts, but I am all swirling so maybe should wait a bit. (And I still have my stupid head cold, always helpful when trying to think Lost world.)
I really like your thoughts on the rules that you mention with respect to Widmore & Ben.
I like your thoughts here… Daniel could definitely be the baby…
I like the idea that the pregnancy issue is actually associated with the men (although I’m sure a woman is ultimately to blame) but I’m a little confused as to why Juliet never came to that conclusion… A lot of people have said that the pregnancy problem is caused by time problems and while I’ve read some well thought out theories about that it actually makes no sense at all.
I think that Christian is not an Other… he’s something else. Ms. Littleton could be as well. They could both be former DHARMA and maybe Christian was trying to get her to come back to the island and she thougt that was a crazy idea… kind of like when Jack first mentioned it to Kate…
Great information as always A.E.S. What sticks out to me is that disappointing scene in the Hydra with Hawking. When Desmond gives her the message from Daniel she never declares she is Daniels Mom. I wonder? She does say someone smart found the Island like we should believe at the time it was Daniel. Well neither of them have made a complete verbal connection to satisfy me. Great points! Especially since they have been hiding Daniel from us lately.
Ladies, great thinking, you can tell you two are discussing together a lot, very similar thoughts, great ideas.
Highbrow, I think we may actually agree on something pertaining to the show. When you said about “makes no sense at all” do you mean the time issue and pregnancies?
Username, I have a few more thoughts on that subject, just not ready yet. Hoefully before the next episode.
Smoke, the hydra?
Nice thoughts on the conversation between her and Des. She never does really respond to that does she?
Wouldnt she be all “MY SON?!?!”….
But I have an idea on that too. It actually is in regards to a few of the characters on Lost, but it is kind of nuts and dont think it would fair very well here. A couple of valid points, but nothing really to go on.
Kim, thinking about the whole constant thing for Faraday, do they need constants at this point? If they do, would baby Charolette do for him?
The nose bleeds. As I told Smoke above, got something that goes with both comments, about Hawking and Desmonds short conversation and the whole nosebleed thing…it will get ripped apart here though, by at least one person…yeah, you know who im talking about.
I don’t think they ‘need’ constants at this point, but we are given the clue that Desmond is Daniel’s constant, so to me, Daniel needs one at some point.
Where that point in time is, who knows. It wasn’t 2004. And he evidently didn’t NEED him as the island was flashing between time periods and everyone else was suffering from temporal displacement.
I think we could take the constant to mean a few things – is it one way or is it reciprocal? (Makes me want to go back and watch it AGAIN…) Des asked if it could be a person, and we saw with his experience that contact with his constant kept him alive.
Your point about Charlotte makes it interesting, because the constant was the familiar thread between time periods, right?
So it seems like she could have been that, but I would be slightly annoyed at the writers if that’s so. Why would they have showed us his notebook about Desmond being his constant if it’s not something that will eventually come up?
All that to say, it’s related in my mind because he DIDN’T have the temporal displacement issues that everyone else did while flashing…and it seems like he should have if he spent a lot of time on the island earlier, like Charlotte did.
Hey…but do bring on your new idea!!!
Desmond…I forget the silver platters sometimes. Thanks for throwing that in my face like the writers already have, lol.
Seriously, between loops and change, religion and quantum physics, I sometimes think I let the easy stuff fall out of my head. Thanks for a reminder.
My new id..oh, no. It doent make much sense. Its more speculation than a theory, guessing almost.
Although I do like to throw crazy thing out there, I dont have much more than a few sentences. Cant defend a speculative prediction. Although…I do like getting Highbrow all fired up with nonsense sometimes ;]
Ha ha… yeah, I like getting fired up and getting other people going is fun too…
Yeah, I said “makes no sense at all” about time problems causing the pregnancy issues…
Yeah, suprised noone yelled about that one yet..lol. But in all honesty, it really doesnt make a whole lot of sense to me.
Read my 1st comment…I more or less knew this was wrong…like I said, just didnt want it to be Ethan ;[
Like I said in a comment on another post, I yelled at my television when they revealed that! Although it does lend support to my “no time loop, no changes” position on time travel.