Definition of a time loop:
A time loop or temporal loop is a common plot device in science fiction (especially in universes where time travel is commonplace) in which time runs normally for a set period (usually a day or a few hours) but then skips back like a broken record. When the time loop “resets”, the memories of most characters are reset.

So, in the plot given to us so far this year in Season 5 we have been given both the explanation from Faraday and the visual FLASHES of what is seemingly a time loop.

However, one of the primary concepts in a temporal loop plot device is that you SKIP BACK in existence and the memories are RESET. A certain OVERLAP existed last night which should help us dissolve the Time Loop as presented on the site so far.

Here is what I mean:

Remember, only Juliet, Faraday, Sawyer, Locke, Charlotte, Miles, Rose, Bernard and a couple faceless others are involved in the RECORD ISLAND SPINNING SCENARIO we are dealing with now.

This then would mean any weird events from any OTHER character (including Charlie, Kate and Jack) would not be affected. Since the island is not moving at the time rate and speed of the group flashing around, this can only TRULY effect the characters of the group we are following.

Last night, when Locke saw the LIGHT BEAM UP TO THE SKY and saw Sawyer watch Kate and Claire at that point we should be convinced that we are not dealing with a completely TRUE TO FASHION TIME LOOP. WHY? Because sawyer is existing on the island somewhere while that is happening and we know JOHN LOCKE IS POUNDING ON THE HATCH when the LIGHT FLASHES UP. This means, Locke hasn’t jumped into HIS BODY at the time they flashed too. Instead, this group is existing in a continued ABSOLUTE TIME FRAME that happens to include them existing in TWO PLACES at ONE TIME. (Remember the TWO BUNNIES in the ORCHID VIDEO OUT TAKES)

The island, protecting itself from certain ‘paradoxes’ or interferences has kept the RECORD spinning so to speak.

So, in my quest to continue on arguing AGAINST THE TIME LOOP, I will finish with this.

There is an ABSOLUTE TIME LINE as it relates to a CHARACTERS life. It does not necessarily have to work in the same way we walk through our lives today.

Sawyer crashed on 815 ==> participated in on island ACTIVITY before the Frozen Donkey wheel was turned ==> Was in the islands radius during the FDW turning ==> existed at flashpoint A ==> existed at flashpoint B ==>existed at flashpoint C ==> etc.. etc..

He has not looped back to participating in on island ACTIVITY before the FDW was turned. Therefore is not LOOPING. If he (and the others) are not looping, then there is no time loop. Because the island is not LOOPING, only the characters effected by the FDW turn.

What is interesting, is why didn’t Alperts group and the OTHERS not LOOP with the survivors and characters that did? This has to message sent and created by the ISLAND.

This to me is COURSE CORRECTING’not TIME LOOPING. If Sawyer (or Locke) were to have flashed, and found themselves at a point in there existence before, then I would buy into the LOOPING theory, however, this is not what we are dealing with here. They are existing on TOP of time that has already exist through the linear timeline within there own life.

Furthermore, if Charlie was born at time A and died at time Z…his time Z could equate to Sawyer’s Time S. ANything sawyer does past TIME S cannot effect Charlie in any such way…I think this is an important rule for the show to follow.

OK TIME LOOP FANS, let me hear where my logic is wrong 🙂

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40 thoughts on “MY ANTI TIME LOOP THEORY

  1. I can’t figure out the edit function, but I meant to say

    “What is interesting, is why didn’t Alperts group and the others not TRAVEL with the survivors and characters that did? This has to be a vehicle created and driven by the ISLAND”

  2. YES. YES! YES! YES! and a huuuuuuuge thank you because now i no longer think i’m an idiot for not understanding why everyone keeps refering to it as a “time loop”.
    *singing* “did you ever know that you’re myyy herooooooo” hahahaha

  3. Not only a hero, but a revolutionary philosopher in the theory world of LOST! This is great! Completely agree and plus… is the outcome ever what they lead you to believe?!

  4. I think you have made a very crucial catch concerning the time travel in Lost. Traditionally, at least as far as I know, a time loop is more like the movie, Groundhog Day. Bill Murray keeps waking up to the same day, and yet he is the only one who is cognizant that the day is being repeated over and over again. And, there aren’t two Bill Murray’s running around at the same time. Time travel on Lost is more like Back to the future time travel. You know an Old Biff goes to see a young Biff and gives him the scores for sporting events for the future. Not exactly the same, because in BTTF, you can change the future by manipulating the past. So not exactly the same, but I think Lost time travel is much more similar to Back to the Future than it is Groundhog day, which is what I would call a time loop. Thanks.

  5. Very well put, but i must ask questions for clarification. If they were to stay on the island in a past time, say the night we saw, and didnt jump..what would that be considered.

  6. get out the humptydumpty skills, put head together and help me understand…make me not believe there is a timeloop…i want to believe there is not one…just cant help it

  7. AES- When the brain or consiousness is unstuck (like Desmonds) they are participating in what you could classify as a loop. however, it’s not like he keeps going back there and reliving it (like Groundhogs day). Maybe he would have if he buys the ring and proposes to Penny, etc…then the day would start over with him falling off the ladder, etc…

    However, LOST has said there are rules, you can’t change the past, and no matter what, Desmond was going to push the button and turn the fail safe key. So when Desmond went back, it was more to show us the ElectroMagentic effect it had on his brain/consiousness. This still doesn’t seem like a LOOP to me.

    Now, taking it further to my arguement here (which was more the arguement that Locke, Sawyer, Juliet, etc…aren’t looping)…because they are not reliving the moments that they are travelling too, and in fact are simply living in different times, this too is not a loop. So, i’m not convniced there is a loop. just strict rules to the time travel methodology that the show is giving us.

    I think more then anything, the island likes to course correct or ensure nothing messes with its DESTINY…which we won’t know until the end of season 6.

    ALL THESE THINGS HAD TO HAPPEN. HOwever, with the island spinning the group around, if no constants are established (and by Daniel saying he loved Charlotte, she now has a constant, by Sawyer seeing Kate, he know has a constant, and we’re left with Miles and Juliet bleeding from there noses) the brain overload is becoming too much.

    I think the nose bleeds because they are going in and out of time in which they have been to an island, and without a constant from that time, the nose bleeds.

    Hope that makes sense….main point, no loop…not yet anyway

  8. what about dan changing the past when he told des to find his mom? Wouldnt that qualify as ‘changing the past’ ? Just another scenario of wht you told me

  9. my whole point is i think the past on crash involves people conscious jumping …which would in a way be a loop if theyre from the season were watching now or next.

  10. to your first point – yes, that was a risk, but what did he really change? the fail safe key was still turned and the Frozen Donkey wheel was still turned, so what did he change…nothing but a CURRENT MEMORY for Desmond….so, it worked within the rules.

    Second point…the Desmond CONSIOUS Jumping, and the consious jumping is in fact like a loop, except, it never has looped more then once, I could be wrong on that in the future, but it hasn’t happened yet

  11. i dont think the rules apply on island. I see what your saying but he DID change something. If hewouldnt have told des to go find mama hawking. Th O6 may not be able to return,not to mention Des’s visit to daniel in oxford last season

  12. Daniel didn’t change anything, he CREATED something. Remember, as far as Desmond goes, that was his first Recollection of the conversation, therefore there was cause and effect, not CHANGE

  13. think about it like this. If i build a sandcastle in middle of beach, then you come along and add a tower and a flag, then you created those parts on my original castle. But by you creating and adding on, you changed my castle in the process.

  14. The way I’m percepting it may be entirely different, but this is why I don’t think they changed the past/broke any rules. Desmond is pushing this button every 108 minutes. Daniel knocks on the door, Desmond answers the door and Daniel tells him what he has to do to find Daniel’s mom. Desmond then returns to what he is doing(as far as we know), therefore nothing is CHANGED in the past. BUT a memory is then created CAUSING desmond to remember this memory and EFFECTING only the future.

    This is what we have been shown atleast, so to my understanding nothing was changed.

  15. If I went back in the past in did that, that would be changing, but if the effect didn’t happen until the future (as in the time I actually made the change) then what you were saying would be true. However, since Faraday didn’t go back, change anything with Desmonds life, until the point in the future…which is the TIMELINE Of DANIEL’s life.

    Man, I’m confused now, even with what your saying, how is it a TIME LOOP

  16. it is the start of the time loop we are watching. Thats why i say the whole show is not a time loop, each individual character, at least some are looping back to the past and causing change to FUTURE events.

  17. Each character? Besides Desmond who has even come close? And how would the show finish up if each character was going looping back and had to learn to control it and find constants, etc….I guess I just don’t know how each character could do that. We also have no evidence of any character besides Desmond that has done such a thing

  18. I promise AES i’ll keep an open mind, i just feel the way I do because I’m stubborn. Either way, will be a good debate to see how it all works out.

    I’m sick thinking about REINCARNATION as it pertains to the show….hopefully it doesn’t come true

  19. good discussion. I think the jumping that is going on now does change some futures. That me by why the island keeps jumping until it gets to a point where no one has altered what is supposed to happen. Or, a simpler situation would be that everything that happens is supposed to happen. the universe is counting on the time traveler to go into the past and do something that alters the future, alter from what happened prior to the jump, but allows for the improvement or change that the universe requires for the future to end up where it is supposed to be. For instance. In our history, we allk know that JFK was shot, that Johnson took over, and history has continued to this point. If, in the grander scheme of things, JFK wasn’t supposed to die, suppose I get sent back in time to the Book depository and stop the shot. While that may erase much of what we know as history between now and then, the universe may have needed me to do that so that the timeline would be corrected.

  20. Note, I think the nosebleeds are more related to the high doses of radiation than they are to the jumping. I think the radiation is necessary for Lost time travel and the nose bleeds are a side effect.

  21. lockeko – good points..but you forget, more then one person shot JFK 🙂 🙂 🙂 OK OK, that’s a theory for another time, place, etc… just had to say it

  22. AES- i think of “changing the past” like this: Desmond trying to stop charlie from dieing. Although he was able to do things to try to stop it, all he was really doing was delaying the inevidable. So although we’ve seen Daniel add something new to Desmonds past, that doesn’t mean he has/will change the end result.
    To me, adding in new events is not considered “changing the past”, and it sounds like you do think of it that way, so i think thats where the confusion lies…..

  23. As for the nosebleeds, i assumed they were a side effect of your conscious time travelling with no constant, and not so much to do with the radiation….sorta like the beginning stages of your brain exploding lol. if that makes any sense.

  24. OK, heres the deal.I WILL AGREE WITH YOU NOT GETTING MY IDEA OF OTHER CHARACTERS going through the time loop. here is a few examples of ‘who’ I feel is looping or has looped and why.
    before i do. i would just like to say that i hope you understand my …loop definition, if you will. I do not agree that the show is a neverending timeloop, and that its the “big” mystery of the show. what i do think is that ‘certain characters’ that actually loop. I believe that Desmond loops, not for an eternity, but at least for one portion of his life. I believe that Faraday loops, my reasoning is because of his boo-hooing at the site of seeing the plane wreckage on the news..not to mention that he has been experimenting with time travel, but more for the first reason.
    There are a few others that i believe are, but they are arguable, and i know I’ll lose those battles against YOU.
    The one who we have not seen loop, but I am the most certain he is John Locke. to say that it is chance or coincidence that Locke has so many…connections with the island is crazy to me. To say that it is because he wants there to be certain things on island that he is destined to see, or do is also an issue. and yes , someone could have told him these things out of scene or in his past,and that is an understandable explanation, that would relate to time travel and not ‘looping’. so if you think that I’ll give you that one. but one thing that is unexplainable, that I and maybe even you Achara, cannot explain. How in the hell, would a human being, no matter instincts or ability, know exactly when it is going to start or stop raining? Call it a reach, but I dont know what else to ask.
    were not in the same boat as far as the changing vs creating idea. but i just dont need the producers to tell me that Locke has done this before to figure out how the guy knew it was going to rain. and dont get upset…for i am very stubborn, yet open minded. you may not ever lean my way, but I may at least give to you a little with the right words. i awit your reply my friend.

  25. AES: With you thinking that Locke knows more than we think, and his connections to the island and such, do you think that when he chooses not to shoot the Other (who we find out is Whidmore), he lied when he told Sawyer he did not shoot “because he’s one of my people” and instead he KNEW that Whidmore could not die because of future events (just like Michael and Locke could not die)?

  26. But what I do think is, for what its worth, John Locke is finally starting to believe that he is the one who is supposed to lead the others. I think it was a huge turning point for Locke, and his real purpose is yet to come. I really think we will see him come out of his shell and be the man who he is destined to be…lets just hope its not just a tool for use of Ben returning.

  27. Hi, I’m new here, so if anyone already posted what i’m about to, please understand why it happended.

    I have a theory regarding the events on the latest episode “the little prince”:

    As you recall, at the episode’s end, we have a look at Danielle’s french team. Now, if you also recall, Danielle used to say to the Losties that her team was victim of what they called a sort of “sickness”, they went crazy, and thus they died eventually.
    Well, I have a theory on what they actualy happened to them. I believe that everything that is going to happen during this time skips has already happened, ad cannot happened either way, it is the past. Therefore, Danielle’s team actually arrived at the island the same way we are shown at the end of the episode (with some people having time skips and later having nose bleeds). So, I think that the so called “sickness” is actually the same thing the Losties (or some of them to be correct) are living (Miles, Charllote and Juliet’s nose bleeding).
    This is the escence of the danger the people of the island are living, that is the sickness Danielle mentioned, and what will kill every one of those having this sickness if not stoped (whatever is causing that).

    So, in short, the same problem some of the Losties are having with the time travel is the same “sickness” Danielle’s team had, and that is why they had the “sickness”, cuz they arrived at the island in 1988, but with the island skiping through space and time for some of them.

  28. I’ll take it one step further. I believe their sickness occurs because they actually start jumping with Jin… Guess we’ll find out in two days if that happens or not. It seems obvious that the French team dies off for this reason. The island sends them through time and virtually all of them die off except Danielle and her baby… but when that happens is the question.

  29. acharaisthekey , you said someting which is wrong (respects):

    -quote- “HOwever, with the island spinning the group around, if no constants are established (and by Daniel saying he loved Charlotte, she now has a constant, by Sawyer seeing Kate, he know has a constant, and we

  30. Ups, sorry dude, I was just reading your post again, and saw my mistake: you said SHE not HE (meaning Charlotte).

    Either way, it is too ambigous to say that by just seeing kate or hearing daniel say that he loves her, that they have the constant. The deal is much more complex: it requires someone to have something or someone that exists in EVERY scenario of time skipping (for desmong it was the present and the past, caz he time skipped between only twi places or times). Therefore, it is necesary for someone to have something or someone that exists ALWAYS in every time reference.
    it could be what you are saying though, just pointing out that it is a little too ambigous or weak argument.

  31. I disagree that Rousseau and co. will start jumping with Jin. I think Jin will jump with Sawyer and co. (as I think he has already been doing) and after a few more flashes he will reunite with them.

  32. Well, guess you were right after all Cappayne, “This place is death” answered that question for us all. Lol.
    It was an intresting way of getting sick with the smokey being involved though (that’s my interpretation of the sickness). Actually, I believe that once smokey kills anyone, they can represent them physically, specifically, I infered that Robert wasn’t him at all (he was dead), and instead it was smokey in person or flesh (or at least a part of him, as I believe we can still find him around the island eventhough he is representing someone).
    Thoughts anyone?

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