Another Fine Mess You’ve Gotten us Into!
The writers have stated, leaving ‘the island’ caused something to occur. The ‘O6’ leaving ‘the island’ at the same time Ben turned the FDW, caused a break in ‘the island’s’ time frame.
Because Ben moved ‘the island’ instead of Locke, he set ‘the wheel’ in motion for all of the events we have, and will continue to see. According to Christian, Jacob wanted Locke to move the FDW, not Ben. The reason for moving ‘the island’ was to avert the problems brought to ‘the island’ by Widmore via ‘the freighter’ and Keamy’s crew. Perhaps, Jacob and ‘the island’ would have dealt with Ben in its own way, had he not made his escape. Yes, I said escape’. Follow my thoughts.
If Locke turned the FDW before Ben did, Locke would have been off of ‘the island’, presumably never to return, who knows. The ‘losties’ would have either continued to be at odds with Ben and ‘the others’, or joined forces with them. Or, they could have lived out a peaceful existence in the same manner as Danielle, striking a truce. But, that didn’t happen, so we will never know. Was this fate or destiny, or something else? Nobody can say with certainty had Locke moved ‘the island’ before Ben if, ‘the island’ would be sent skipping through time in such a frenetic manner. The FDW was left off of its axis, and perhaps Ben planned it this way.
Why didn’t Ben allow Locke to move ‘the island’? He had blown up ‘the freighter’, and killed Keamy and his crew. With ‘the island’ being moved, it may have taken Widmore another 20 years to find it again, if at all. One of the reasons Ben left, as I mentioned in a previous theory, was to exact revenge on Widmore, for Alex’ death. Ben turned the FDW, because he knew he could return to ‘the island’, via ‘the 06’. If Ben had NO way to return, he would never have left, relinquishing his reign of power. Their departure from ‘the island’ disrupted the balance and the equilibrium required, and ‘the island’ started skipping wildly through time.
Now here is the real ‘kicker’! Ben is NOT supposed to be present with the ‘the losties’ and ‘the 06’ moving through time with them. Had Ben remained on ‘the island’, as Jacob intended, he would have stayed in the same time frame and have been compelled to exist by the same rules and conditions, which apply to Richard, et el. Now, he’s with ‘the losties’ and ‘the 06’, where he will have full advantage and free reign to influence a time period, he simply should not be in! The ‘losties’ and ‘the 06’ are now with the Dharma Initiative, whether they are supposed to be or not.
Ben always has a plan. He escaped ‘the island’ so he could directly participate in the coming events. Ben IS the reason why ‘the island’ and everyone else is in jeopardy, whether directly or indirectly. He set ‘the wheel’ in motion! How many ‘rules’ have been bent, broken or perhaps fractured as a result of this. What repercussions will occur, because of his well orchestrated plan. It doesn’t really matter if his intentions are right, wrong, good or otherwise. Or, how it will all turn out in the end. Only ‘time will tell’, if this was fate, destiny or something entirely different, or a combination of all things, and what it will all eventually mean, in the grand scheme of things.
i love this, one detail remains. Was Sun with the pilot? she should also be with the rest of the 06.
Thanks, poohbear! I believe Sun is with Frank Lapidus. They will undoubtedly meet up with everyone else at a later date.
Maybe the writers wanted to hold off on the Jin & Sun reunion. You know, all the tears and stuff! lol
I seriously doubt it was Sun with the pilot.
Im glad this came up, not really talked about. I think Sun is in the same time period as Kate, Jack, and Hurley. Her AND Sayid, most likely went with the other O6 members to their “correct” time…yes 1977 is their correct time…at least at this point in the game. I think that Locke and Ben didnt “flash” for 2 reasons.
1)Did not complete their task of bringing EVERYONE back to the island. They have to bring everyone back, it was said again and again. We have at this point seen nothing come of them not bringing the 3 kids back, except this.
2)I truly dont think that they were supposed to flash. And I think Ben knew they were not going to. It is a matter of time before he wakes to see that his plan is up to speed. People spoke of the possible use of the runway. Guess what, this is why its there. Ben had the others and the SKATE, build it so when they arrived, he lived. Frank it would seem, if I am correct, knew of the runway. I think Frank is in a little deeper than we asssume. Not very important, just a little. He most likely rowed off in a boat with one of the people who were all ready on the island. Not sure if it was an other or a Lostie,but I truly dont think it was Sun.
I think Frank may be with another person other than a 316 survivor because of my logic behind Sun “flashing” and the fact that he left. Why would he just leave. Sun makes the best reason. He went with her in search of Jin. But I think it may have even been a other or Lostie that was in the 70s and survived through the years. Or maybe we’ll see Danielle or Alex return as other dead members of the island have before.
AES, you make a good point about the reason why Sun may not be with Lapidus. I should have thought of that! lol
hmmm….good thoughts on why we shouldn’t necessarily go all out on trusting Lapidus.
I have no doubt they are in the same time period, and are only in different locations on ‘the island’.
Prior to writing this theory, I thought the main reason why Ben wasn’t with everyone else was, to avoid any paradox, in addition to not fulfilling his task of reuniting everyone, but thought this may also be a valid reason.
Now, I believe he might be just about to set that particular rule, on its ear! The paradox rule, that is!
I would agree with you on both reasons why Locke and Ben didn’t flash. Obviously, Ben knew he had no chance of flashing, and built the runway in advance. You are correct, they didn’t bring everyone back, so it impacts both.
Most are about to meet up with one another again. It will be interesting to see, the implications of Ben being in the same time frame, as he was when he was a child, and how that will be handled.
Throw out the rule book!
I rule out the paradox idea for this particular subject, because a) we saw John and the other losties in the same time period in which they already lived through. and b) We saw both bunnies in the orchid, and there was no paradox. Physical contact between the two may cause a paradox.
Throw out the book indeed, the rules were gone the 1st time the island moved in time, whether we saw it or not. The rules of time were broken then and there. Thats why I cant understand why people are not more openminded on subjects of time travel. The rules, the rules! The rules of time travel are about as relevant as the rules of pigs flying.
Right again, AES. As long as Ben doesn’t physically come into contact with younger Ben, no paradox!
I agree with you on the time travel aspects. It’s hard to believe so many viewers still can’t embrace this notion.
Here is the thought I have about Sun and why she flashed differently than everyone else. She did not have Jin’s ring, Ben had it. Is it possible that by her not being able to recreate the original circumstances of #815, (ie: she was travelling with him, originally),this could be why she separated from Jack, Kate & Hurley?
“The rules of time travel are about as relevant as the rules of pigs flying”. Good point! lol
hey guys/gals, don’t discount the paradox just yet. I’m pretty sure Sun is with Lapidus and we already know Ben and John as well. I think we will find they are in a different time line as evident by the runway which we know was being built somewhere around 2004 when Sayer and Kate were held.
The real interesting question why Sun didn’t flash with Jake, Kate, etc. I think she is/was on the Island during Dharma time after all.
Even though the flashes had allowed Sawyer, John, Juliet, etc to be in the same time period as themselves, they were never in contact with themselves and i DO not believe the Island would allow that.
Dabs, why do you reference the Island in quotations?
username, you just had to throw that out there about the runway, didn’t you? lol
Very good point about that! I will have to give that some additional thought. That is interesting.
I am thinking AES is likely right about Sun not being with Lapidus, for the reasons he mentioned, though.
What makes you believe Sun may have been on ‘the island’ during Dharma? That certainly is an interesting thought.
The only person who I felt may create a paradox is Ben! I am having some pretty wild thoughts where he is concerned.
I have an entirely different thought on the show, since the recent discussions about ‘the record skipping’ and the songs playing. Now you have thrown in the runway, it’s compelling me more. It’s out there, trust me. I will post it soon to get people’s thoughts.
lol As for the quotations, I do that for ‘the island’, ‘the losties’, ‘the others’, etc. It’s just my own personal idiosyncrasy to give them importance. Thanks for the great input, and many more thoughts to ponder!
Who threw the runway out there?
lol AES, I knew that was coming! Some times, a girl just can’t catch a break!
lol, i miss nothing
hey dabs,
i like the quotations!
since last episode, i’m on the path of thinking that those that flashed were allowed to flash as they did not pose any risk to a paradox, where if ben landed in the 70s he could run into his younger self. as for Sun, i’m not 100% sure, it’s just adding 1 and 1 together based on the woman being on the boat with the Pilot. I figure the woman must be Sun since we have not seen her yet. And if it is Sun, there must be a reason why she didn’t flash to the 70’s like the rest of them and that reason being the same as Ben’s. I can’t remember if the sex of Dr. Changs baby was revealed in the first episode this season, but if I was a betting man, i’d bet the baby was Sun.
Thoughts?
Not Sun.
No chance, none. Someone else.
lol AES, I know you don’t miss a thing! I was waiting for you to pounce on that one!
hey a.e.s, not Sun on the boat with the pilot or not Sun as in Dr. Changs child?
username, Dr. Chang refers to “keeping him quiet”. I thought this could be Miles, but am not sure about the age being quite right.
I believe Sun ‘flashed’ differently, because she didn’t have Jin’s ring, as I previously mentioned. I don’t know for certain, if that’s it. Ms. Hawking did say, that if things were not exactly recreated, there would be repercussions.
This could have been one of them. Nothing personal against Sun.
I am still unconvinced that anyone is in a different time frame than Dharma, runway or not. I know this is the general consensus, and I understand why people think that.
Honestly, I was really trying to avoid any debate on the runway! For fear people would pounce upon me, in disagreement. lol
hi dabs,
yeah, i didn’t quite remember whether they stated the sex, ifs a boy, could be miles as well.
i like your idea of why Sun didn’t flash, beats having her on the island in the past avoiding the paradox theory, i just put it out there.
the runway was there … ben built it for himself knowing he was going to crash 😉
PS: username, I also think as Ms. Hawking didn’t elaborate on what those repercussions might be, this could be one of them.
I do agree why Ben & Locke didn’t.
Also, if Lapidus didn’t flash because he was a stand-in for the original pilot, that may not have been good enough.
Hmm the child thing I havent given much thought to. But she is definetly not in the same time period as Lapidus. Unless he is in the same time period as Jack, Hurley, Kate….and Sayid. They HAVE to be in 1977.
Have to, have to, have to.
username, I agree about the runway, and why ben built it, but I don’t think that means those who are presently on Hydra Island, are in a different time frame.
Forgive me, if I misunderstood.
p.s. i do recall mentioning to my spouse the baby could be Jin now that you mention Dr. Chang said keep him quiet. But now that we know Jin in the 70’s that’s not possible, matter of fact it makes Miles an unlikely candidate as well. who could it be? another theory in the making.
AES, Yes, I definitely think in the same time period.
Otherwise, that would constitute another ‘flash’, which might totally mess things up.
Wait…we dont know for sure, that Ben, Locke, Lapidus went to another time?
Now your on the right track with Jin, username.
His mother was a prostitute and his father may not have been his father. So, I could definitely see that as a possibility.
AES, I am agreeing with you. They are ALL in the same time period.
Tell me who is in 1977 that was on 316? The losties that we know. I have confused myself i think. I do that often, but usually creating theories, not reading comments…lol
AES, We have seen, Juliette, Sawyer, Miles, Daniel, Jack, Kate and Hurley.
In other locations we know Ben & Locke are there on Hydra Island.
Sayid is somewhere in the jungle I think, and no doubt Lapidus is with Sun, canoeing to ‘the island’.
My take anyway. No time period difference. they are all in the same time frame, but in different locales.
There it is…
I think any time difference would make the story too difficult.
I think it would make it easier. Sorry Dabsi, I think I just realized why no one understands my thinking fully…I think the flash that Jack, Kate, and Hurley went through, was them travelling to 1977. The fact that noone else flashed, leads me to believe that they are still in 2007. That is why the runway exists, that is why the others flashed. Wow…I dont know whether to cheer or blush. Am I the only one who thinks this?
Is that why Ive been arguing with Highbrow, because no one else is under this impression? That would make sense why he doesnt get me. Either I got something right, or I really overanalyzed this one.
AES, Cesar tells Locke, that he saw Hurley just disappear on the plane.
I think the only people who didn’t flash, aside of the other passengers on board, were Locke & Ben.
We don’t know about Lapidus or Sun flashing, they could have gotten out of the plane and took off, right after the plane landed.
That’s why I think Lapidus and Sun were together, because they stole the canoe from Hydra Island.
Make sense??
Yeah but what year do you think Locke and Ben are in?
They are ALL in the same year! Ben & Locke are on Hydra Island.
The office Cesar was in, did not look abandoned to me. Most of the other stations we saw during Ben’s reign, were fairly sparse.
I could be wrong about them, and accept if I am, but it makes no sense, unless Hydra Island, flashes. Or, when they leave Hydra, Ben knows how to get exactly within the circumference of ‘the island’.
That would make sense!
Actually, I just talked myself into that last part! lol
That would make sense, right?
I may be terribly mistaken. wow, i dont even know how to explain why I think this. Honestly, I didnt even theorize it, I just assumed it while watching. My perspective, at this point, may be…plain and simply, wrong. Theres no other words. In which, I step down from the discussion with Highbrow. If Im the only one who thinks this way, how the hell did my theories make sense?
lol AES, well they absolutely made sense to me, I just wasn’t convinced of Ben & Locke, et el being in 2007.
I’m not so sure, I’ve talked myself into that either, but I am at least now open to it. The logic is there, but not quite enough for me to be convinced.
I just can’t get around the runway, but give me time. lol
Don’t be so hard on yourself. highbrow would have found another point to disagree on. lol
No offence highbrow, it was meant with affection!
I’m with you Dabs, I’m not FULLY convinced that we have two timelines existing between the two islands. Doesn’t mean it’s not a possibility, but it just doesn’t seem consistent with the other flashes we’ve seen. If someone can provide some evidence that there’s been two different years existing ON island at the same time, then throw it out there into this mix!
Okay, the next thing I think I agree on is Sun. BTW, I thought she had the ring on the plane…I thought she was holding it and looking at it as the plane prepared to take off… Anyway, I’m not convinced it was Sun with Lapidus. Again, it doesn’t mean it that it couldn’t be, it’s just something I don’t have to believe to be true to make anything make sense prior to next week’s episode.
Hi kimberly, I think everyone was a bit confused on this different time thing. It’s that damn runway! lol
Also, there should be viable proof of it being a different time. I’m with you, it could be, but……
If you recall, Locke had Jin’s ring and Ben took it after he kills Locke. Unless Ben gave it back to her! I didn’t think he did. But…..Now I am confused! lol
kimberly, now that I think about it, I do recall Sun looking at Jin’s ring.
The other thought I have about Lapidus and his lady friend on the canoe is, she could be just another passenger. One that will get killed, in some random way.
So maybe Sun is with Sayid, or they’re making their way separately. I could see that as a possibility, but Sayid creeping through the jungle, ‘ninja style’ all alone, also makes sense.
As you say, the smaller details don’t detract from anything. We’ll find out, soon enough.
One thought I just had was that marshall Ilana? (Too late, can’t remember her name.)
Don’t you think if Sayid “flashed” she would have freaked out a little more?
Instead, he simply disappeared in the craziness of…a PLANE CRASHING ON AN ISLAND…runway or no-runway.
And we’ve seen Sayid in the previews for the next episode, so we know he’s in 1977. (And we also saw Sun holding the ring, again.) 😉
So to me, this is one little argument that if he just vanished before her eyes, she might have been a little more weirded out than she was. Cesar probably ‘noticed’ the flashings since he might have more of a backstory to pay attention to these sort of the things.
Hey kimberly, you could be right about Cesar!
I thought it very odd, that Ilana never freaked out over Sayid, being missing. The writers conveniently left that out for us.
Your explanation makes sense. Thanks!
Yeah, I think that Ilana and Ceasar both have interesting back stories… It does seem that Ilana might have been expecting the Losties to vanish.
There is a glaring difference between Jack, Kate and Hurley, and Sayid and Sun. JKH seemed to be kind of onboard with the whole “return to the island idea”. Maybe not whole-heartedly but still… Sayid and Sun had a different opinion of the idea. Sayid at least since it seems he didn’t even come along willingly…
Correction: Sun is definitely not on a canoe with Lapidus.
highbrow, do you think with Sun and Sayid not being on board with returning to ‘the island’, that this caused them to ‘flash’ differently? That’s an interesting thought!
Not sure… but maybe. It definitely sets them apart from the other three (now maybe physically).
I am inclined to agree with you, highbrow.
On another note! We have been debating over what year (time frame) Hydra Island is in.
One camp says it is 2007 on Hydra, while the other camp feels it is 1977. One of the main mysteries, is the runway.
I don’t know how far Hydra Island is from the main ‘island’. I felt it is within the ‘radius’ of the main island.
This is the only reason, why time would be different, IMO, and for no other.
Right now, my stand is that both island’s are in 1977. But the runway, throws a monkey wrench into the mix, that I can’t seem to get around.
Your thoughts, please!
Well I think they’re in 2007 because the station seems to be abandoned and because of the runway (even though I don’t think we’ve actually seen it but it’s assumed that they used it).
The problem I have with that is why didn’t the Others come to check out the crash? Did this happen without them noticing? I would have thought they would have been all over that.
So the problem with 1977 is the runway and the fact that LaFleur (Four hundred and sixty collars, all convicted. I hear he’s even got two kills…) hasn’t dispatched a security detail to check things out. The problem with 2007 is that Captain Eyeliner hasn’t shown up with a torch to find out just who the heck has crashed on his island now…
So I guess I don’t know what time it is. I think there is slightly more evidence to support 2007 (or thereabouts) but I can’t figure out why they’d be there instead of 1977. If it turns out that Sun and Sayid are in 2007 then I’ll be really confused!
Thanks highbrow. What you say does make sense. The reason ‘the others’ would not know about the crash is, it’s on Hydra Island, and not the main island.
In order for the remaining ’06ers’ to return to the main island, either another flash has to occur, (not going to happen for obvious reasons). Or, Hydra Island is outside of the ‘radius’ which affects the main island. And, while that could be a possibility, it has ‘holes’ in it.
As for the office appearing abandoned, it was much more sparse in furnishings, etc., when modern day Ben & ‘the others’, inhabited it. Would Ben have kept around magazines from 1954, and other remnants of Dharma? I’m not sure.
Thanks for your input. It’s driving me nuts! lol Not a long trip btw….lol
I have this nagging suspicion that the writers did this on purpose… Who am I kidding, of course they did! Ah well…
Yeah, I’m not too sure exactly what kind of relationship Hydra Island has to the main island… it seems to move with it but does it have similar properties? Do the Others consider it part of their domain? If they do then I’d definitely expect them to show up to check things out… they seem to have a pretty good awareness of things that happen on their turf.
WAIT A MINUTE!~ Highbrow, How can you possibly think that they are in 2007?
That is the whole flippin basis for my theories as of late.
Heres the thing. I didnt theorize they are in 2007. I watched the episode, saw and heard about the consequences of the “flashes”, and from there just assumed that they were in 2007. Not only that, but I assumed it was the most plain as day thing, and EVERYONE else thought/knew it too.
I seriously would have written a theory the day of the show about this subject, I just thought it was a given. Is there something wrong with me? Why does my brain work like this?lol.
Highbrow, Have you always thought that since the episode?
If so, how can you not believe in multiple timelines or loops?
Wow…wow…wow…wow.
I honest to god thought we were supposed to just know that the flashing was time traveling, and the crash was…well, a present 2007 crash on the island.
AES, run on over to your theory! I posted something of interest for you!
Um, yeah… I thought it was a given when I saw the episode. But some people think they’re all in 1977… I can see why they might believe that…
How does having people at different points in the timeline necessitate a time loop or alternate timelines?
highbrow, see what i posted in AES theory about Hydra Island.
Also, I will leave the ‘time looping’ to my good friend, AES!
I swear if I don’t check this site out five times a day I fall way behind. Forgive me for chiming in like this but maybe I can be of help…
Yes Sun has Jin’s ring in her possession. Ben handed it to her as proof of Jin being alive (!) just outside the church of Our Mother The Lampost Prophetess.
Dabs: ‘…Sun definately not on the canoe with Lapidus…’ Please elaborate. How do you know the pilot in the canoe was Lapidus and what are you basing yourself on to say Sun was not in the canoe? She either flashed off flight 316 before the crash or she stayed on and wound up with Ceasar and Ilana, at least temporarily. In which case she may or may not be the woman who left with ‘the pilot’. The pilot may have been Lapidus’ co-pilot who landed the plane after Lapisus crashed. As far as I can ascertain there is not enough evidence until next week to formulate a definite hypothesis.
Highbrow: ‘Why didn’t the others come and investigate?’ Captain Eyeliner (loved that one by the way) was last seen (chronologically) leading his group to the temple with Locke just before the first flash. For all we know it may have been to serve Cool Aid inb some kind of doomsday ritual and there may be nobody to come and investigate. If there is any logic behind the Lost timeline THREE YEARS have elapsed since Locke disapeared before Richard’s eyes.
Ilana freaking out at the disapearance of sayid. Maybe she did and maybe she did not. Maybe she expected him to disapear that way. Maybe she works for Widmore or Ben or maybe she doesn’t. Maybe by the time Locke appears she has had time to get over her initial hysteria. I hope US marsahalls are chosen partly for their sang froid. Hydra island is rather small. A lot of left over installations and hardware from Dharma to search through before giving up on one handcuffed prisoner.
As for the rest of the discussion… Am I right in summing it up as three possibilities?
a) The Oceanic Six (minus Aaron and possibly Sun and less probably sayid) flashed off flight 316 and back in time to 1977 to the main island. This is mostly born out by the episodes and previews we have just been shown.
b)Ceasar, ilana, Locke and Ben (along possibly with Lapidus and Sun) physically crashed on Hydra or Alcatraz island in their present time frame, that is to say in 2007.
OR
c) Ceasar, Ilana, Locke and Ben crashed on Hydra island after the wholw kit and kabootle flashed back or foreward to another time frame, or to the same time frame as Sawyer and co.
d) a mix of both. That is to say the two islands are seperate entities shifting in time but not in synchronicity with each other. Hence you can row over from one to the other and go through some kind of time warp. So perhaps Sun did crash in 2007 and row over to 1977.
Did I get it right?
Andre7, I clarified Sun was not on the canoe, several comments above. I was mistaken about that!
However, there is NO proof Sun is with Ilana and Cesar on Hydra Island. Have you seen Sun there?
I am not making an assumption it was Lapidus who went off in the canoe, with a woman. This was stated by Cesar to Locke in their conversation.
From Lostpedia:
LOCKE: I think… I might know how I came to be here. But that would involve me finding my friends. Do you have a–a–a passenger list?
CAESAR: No. The pilot took it when he ran off.
LOCKE: And everyone’s accounted for–all the people? O–other than the–the ones who disappeared.
CAESAR: Yeah, yeah, except for the people who got hurt.
LOCKE: “The people who got hurt”?
That should clear that up for you nicely.
Thanks
Andre7 I realize in this conversation Cesar says ran off. In an earlier conversation he speaks of the pilot running off in a canoe with a woman.
Andre7, Here is the other conversation, between Ilana and Locke which references the canoe, the pilot and the woman.
ILANA: I’m Ilana.
LOCKE: [Thumbing to himself] John. [Thumbing behind him] Are those your boats?
[Various crash survivors comb through two outrigger canoes pulled safely up on the beach.]
ILANA: No. They were already here. There used to be three, but the pilot and some woman took one. Didn’t tell anyone, just ran off in the middle of the night.
Yes, I did make the assumption this was Sun, but do realize WHY this may not be true.
Perhaps, reading all of the previous comments, will enlighten you on that, though!
Thanks for keeping a sharp eye!
Who was shooting at Locke/Sawyer/Juliet/Miles/Sun/Daniel and Charlotte from the canoe? Is anyone clear on this?
I think it is confusing that they were on a canoe like the ones on the beach after the crash. Is this possible that ‘past Locke’ was paddling in the ocean while ‘Dead Locke’ was standing on the beach, eating Mango?
Hi willis, great question! If memory serves me, when Sawyer, Juliette and company came upon the beach, there were 2 canoes, one of which they took. We know the pilot, (Lapidus & woman) had already taken one. I gave this some thought, though.
Lapidus was a pilot. Present day pilots are required to be armed in the cockpit, so I don’t know if he might have been responsible.
We don’t know yet, if we will see somebody else get into the remaining canoe or not.
One of these canoes inhabitants were responsible for firing the shots. I can’t recall if there was one canoe on the beach when Sawyer, et el, returned.
Hey guys I don’t really see why physical contact between Big Ben nd Kiddie ben would create a paradox. Presuming that he doesn’t kill him all he may be doing is climatizing Little Ben and seeding his plan onto his younger self to guarantee his return to the island. As his younger self grows up he would realize that when he meets his younger self he would need to act in the same way he was I fluenced as a child. Yes this IS a loop theory but it’s practically unavoidable now losties are in contact with the DI 🙂
Thoughts please
Skil1
skil1, the video Locke found in the Orchid Station of Candle/Halliwax and the 2 bunnies, made a point of stating that the 2 bunnies should not come into direct contact with one another.
While it is possible to be in the same place, physical contact must be avoided.
We don’t know the extent of what the consequences of this might be. This is the paradox, we are referring to.
ok 🙂 but maybe they feared creating a paradox that would lead to the time machine not being created in the first place. Surely vision is also contact as one bunny can see the other hence the fact that contact is possible if not limited. I think the DI never fully tested the machine because they feared this paradox otherwise they wouldn’t have been eliminated by the hostiles. With the creation of a time machine they could travel to any point along the time machines existence and would have been able to find out about the hostile invasion. Either they never fully ventured into the future or they attempted and failed to change the future. Which means that once a time machine has been invented the meanings of past present and future no longer hold their meaning which would lean towards the existence of fate. I know we are unaware if they wxperimened with humans but I feel that the fear of creating a paradox stopped them from exploiting the machines potential.
More stupid thoughts from
Skil1
Skil1, first off, allow me to correct you! Your thoughts are NOT stupid! They are logical and reasonable and relevant.
You are right, we don’t know how much Dharma experimented with the elements of time travelling. We do know, however, that Daniel Faraday made some sort of attempt on Theresa Spencer, and it went completely awry.
If, we are to accept that Daniel Faraday failed with Theresa, I think we can assume that ‘the rules’ of the paradox may apply.
That is not to say, that sometime later, another alternative was found, although I’m not sure what that might be.
I really like your explanation, about past, present and future in terms of the ‘time machine’ and fate. Cool idea! Definitely something to think about!
good work AES 😀 they must be in different times if the DI is on the main island and the runway by the hydra is in existence :))
Goood thinking
🙂 thanks dabiatch
Again I believe that daniels experiment with theresa was slightly different to the DIs because as far a we know he did not have access to the ‘special’ electromagnetic energy but as you see he only attempts to send Elouise and Theressas consciousness’ through time.
In the orchid orientation video you an clearly see two bunnies in existence and this suggests that the whole consciousness and physical body was transported as opposed to daniels consciousness only experiment 😮
More thoughts 🙂
Skil1
Hi skil1, you can call be dabs!
We have not seen exactly what kind of experiment Faraday did with Theresa.
I am not going to assume, it was the same as it was with Eloise, (running the maze, and consciousness travelling.
Faraday was able to assist Desmond, by having him establishing a ‘constant’, so that is my main reason for thinking it was something different, with Theresa.
Although, if it were a case of ‘consciousness travelling’, as opposed to the ‘time travelling’, it’s certainly a good possibility and a logical assumption.
yea dabs 🙂 but don’t forget elouise died. Perhaps this was because as Daniel explained a constant was needs to anchor your consciousness in time. He couldn’t relate this to the rat and so it died.
We really need to find out what happened with theresa I don’t think answers are that far away cox one of the next few episodes is called ‘the variable’ or something like that which implies another part of the time equation dan wrote 😀
Skil1
skil1, I get what you are saying about Eloise, but he would then be armed with that knowledge, so Theresa shouldn’t have been affected. When Eloise died, this was when he realized that you needed a ‘constant’, and subsequently informed Desmond.
At least, that was my impression.
Dunno, I feel his experiment with Theresa, may have been something different. You could be right! We’ll know soon enough, though.
Glad to see you are involving yourself in the discussions!
I thought the name of the next episode was Namaste??
Thanks 🙂 only time will tell
Ugh I hate time :@
Yea next ep is called namaste but I like to look
Ahead a bit nd find out some more ep names
5×12 is called ‘dead is dead’ ominous or what??
Your right again but if you remember desmond wasn’t
Unstuck in time he was simply switching between
1996 and 2004 whereas theresa wasn’t jumping
Back and forth to a specific date but like the losties
She appeared to be jumping randomly.
Hmm I just realized this as I was writing your
Response 😀 thanks for the jolt :))
Skil1
Skil1, I have mentioned this in a few posts now. We should not rely too much on what Faraday says! He has screwed a lot of things up.
I find Faraday’s statements in particular, “whatever happened, happened”, etc., is likely going to turn out to be the opposite.
I wouldn’t be too surprised if the title “Dead is Dead”, is another misdirection.
Regardless, I’m loving it all.