The Smoke Monster is”..
I have heard many descriptions of what the ‘Smoke Monster’ might be. Many people seem to believe it is a man-made, computer generated anomaly, and can be controlled by man or something along these lines.
I believe it must have some ancient origin that relates directly to ‘the island’, and perhaps Jacob himself. I am uncertain if this was originally created by the ancient indigenous people of ‘the island’ or by some other deity.
Some people seem to believe Ben has some control over it, but I think that control is entirely limited, to summoning ‘the smoke monster’ only. It appears it has a mind of its own! Ben was just as quick to get out of the way, when he let it go ‘Rambo’ on Keamy and his crew. Ben told Locke to run like the wind, and he did as well!
Nobody has been able to give it a name or supply a possibility of its existence in the real world, so to speak. I have, like most viewers puzzled over the mystery of what ‘The Smoke Monster’ could be. After some careful research, I’ve reached some conclusions. It may be what is known as a ‘Tulpa’, or Thought-form.
A ‘Tulpa’ is, in Tibetan mysticism, a being or object that is created through willpower, visualization, attention and focus, concerted intentionality and ritual. In other words, it is a materialized thought that has taken physical form. (A thought-form). They date back to 150BC and are also referred to as ‘Egrigore’s’, in The Book of Enoch. It means, ‘Watchers’. ‘Tulpas’ can be in the forms of animals, mythical creatures, and also humans, and fall under the category of Cryptozoology. Coincidentally, Dharma was studying Cryptozoology at one of their Stations.
The ‘Tulpa’ concept was brought to the west in the 19th century by Alexandra David-Neel, who claimed to have created a ‘Tulpa’ in the image of a jolly, Friar Tuck-like monk which later developed a life of its own and had to be destroyed.
Thought-forms are evident in Buddhism, and in indigenous cultural traditions throughout the world. Some Thought-forms are considered evolutionary, conscious and sentient which iterate and interact, and some may transmute to organic life or other types of being. It is also believed that crop circles, poltergeist activity, etc., are related to the ‘Tulpa’. They are divided into 3 categories:
1. That which takes on the image of the thinker.
2. That which takes on the image of some material object.
3. That which takes a form entirely its own, expressing its inherent qualities in the matter which it draws round it.
We have seen the ‘smoke monster’ display similar aspects as mentioned above, throughout the show. It has taken form using the dead body of Yemi, and with those who are still living, eg; Walt, and present itself in the form of various animals eg: Kate’s horse, etc. We have also witnessed the ‘Smoke Monster’ appearing to read the thoughts of certain people it encounters.
I believe the ‘smoke monster’ may have taken on a life of its own. This could have occurred by some negative outside force manipulating it, or by its own means.
I think this may be one viable explanation that is worth considering.
This is super-ultra-mega interesting. I’m going to have to look up this Alexandra David-Neel person…
This is a great explanation for smokey… thanks for sharing!
Thanks, highbrow!
You can also google Tulpa’s, Egrigore’s as well. Some very interesting reading!
From Wikipedia about Tulpas:
“Inasmuch as the mind creates the world of appearances, it can create any particular object desired.”
I wrote a theory on LT a while back about the Holographic Universe theory and how it might apply to Lost… I think this idea is along the same lines…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holographic_Universe
I think at times, with all of the other elements that are happening in Lost, we tend to forget how special ‘the island’, actually is. At least from the mystical standpoint.
I will take a look at the link you provided, a bit later, and let you know what I think.
Hi Dabs
I like this idea but is raises other questions
Who’s original thought created the monster?
Who controls it?
How do they control it?
The last question really interests me, If it has taken on a life of its own, how Ben release? and run!!
I don’t think Ben has any kind of control over the monster at all. He simply knows what will provoke it. He can use that to “call” it… sort of…
prosperoburns, from the reading I have done, it would appear that these things, eventually take on a life independent of the original creator/s.
I would tend to believe it has ancient origins, but that’s just my take on it. The references to the Book of Enoch, were quite interesting. The aspects which pertain to the ‘Fallen Angels’ and the Watchers is compelling reading.
I don’t believe Ben or anyone else controls it! But, maybe Jacob did, depending on how long Jacob has been around.
hey dabs – super idea!
and as for your last comment – I totally get where you are coming from. The series Supernatural had an episode on a Tulpa and I believe that the characteristics changed according to the ‘believers’. So the end result was different from what it started off as.
Thanks, carolyndee! So, it sounds like the episode of Supernatural has some ring of truth to this! Good to know!
I would love to know what episode of Supernatural the Tulpa was in, if you recall it. I’d definitely watch it!
What a fantastic theory!
Based on your theory, the Monster may very well BE The Magic Box, IF Jacob has any control over it.
Think it and it happens. This may also relate to some other theories about Walt’s imagination and connection to the Monster.
Bravo!
sohrshah, thanks for your kind words!
I also believe this may be what Ben was referring to, when he told Locke to think of ‘the island’ as a magic box.
As for Walt and his abilities, they may have been what Ben and ‘the others’ were so opposed to, if Walt had similar abilities.
This is why we appreciate ya so much. Great insight on how Smokey operates. And I believe close to right on. I lean towards the notion that Smokey and the Island were created simultaneously and enter your theory where someone, with there mind enhances or creates the smokemonster in away that we are seeing take place presently.
Question do you think smokemonster feeds or takes up certain souls or energies that die on the Island.
Will go research Tupa now that you sparked some good stuff.
Thanks for your kind words, OT.
I’m sure you are right about ‘the island’ and the ‘smoke monster’ being created hand in hand.
I like the idea personally, of the ‘smoke monster’ taking up certain souls.
With my limited understanding of what I read in the Book of Enoch, about Fallen Angels, and the ‘Watcher’, it seems like this might be a plausible idea.
dabs, when the polar bear was after Walt, do you think it was the smokey? when i watched the episode, my thoughts were that it was.
I like that you bring up angels in the discussion b/c Michael is an infamous Angel in the Bible and of course the Father of Walt(who I believe has a connection to the smoke) and a little connection.
The other thing I did not mention is our incapability to rid our selves of this number three. You describe the monster in three numbers above. And we for sure have seen the monster break into THREE parts.
username, I recall last year, the writers listed when and whom the ‘smoke monster’ appeared as. It is in one of their Podcasts I believe.
If my recollection is correct, this was one of those instances.
OT, you are right on both counts. I did read about the ‘biblical’ Michael.
The number three, is hard to ignore, in addition! Good catch on that!
When I wrote ‘a little connection ‘ I meant an unknown connection. Sorry
OT, I knew what you meant.
Also, Cerebrus is depicted in Wikipedia as a three-headed creature.
username and Dabs I watched the scene you writing about and I think that there is some sort of connection. Remember where Walt ended up hiding behind the Bamboo tree or whatever the tree is that he hid at. It is the same place we saw Kate and Juliet hide in. Something’s going on here.
It pays to re-watch old episodes, OT. I agree that Walt, Juliette and Kate all took refuge in similar places.
I am thinking they weren’t the only ones. I’ll have to think on that!
Yeah it does pay, boss and your right there are others I was trying to remember, But drew a blank.
I will be here for a few hrs.
A.E.S. where is ya
OT, The ‘smoke monster’ chased after quite a few of ‘the losties’, according to Lostpedia.
It also confirms the Podcast of May/08, that the ‘smoke monster’ has appeared as Walt, on several occasions, was ‘the spider’ Nikki & Paolo encountered as well, and Yemi.
The Banyan tree seems to be a popular place of refuge from it. Charlie also hid in one as well.
I had forgotten how many times we have actually seen it appear in various forms.
PS: on a side note, Lostpedia mentions that the Dharma barracks are built over the secret room in Ben’s house. The stone doorway has heiroglyphs written on it.
sohrshah, where are you??? There is a picture of the doorway on Lostpedia, I wonder if you might be able to translate it?
Dabs, I’m not sure how on earth you knew I can read hieroglyphs… but honestly I can’t make out the characters in the images all that well. Lostpedia translates them as roughly “summon protection”.
Most of the translating I have done in the real world were funerary in nature, so alot easier to read than this garbled mumbo jumbo on Ben’s Door. Also, it should be pointed out that transliteration is an inexact science/art, because some glyphs represent sounds and others meaning, and that changes over time in the real world. Also, like Hebrew, vowel sounds are NOT represented, so the modern people who created these glyphs for the show may or may not have created correct ‘translations’ to begin with. Like the rest of Egyptian aesthetic, hieroglyphs were very specific, and the pictured glyphs are… not.
Whether a thought-created being, a mononoke, a jinn/genie, or whatever else, cerberus is stil a tri-partite creature whose function is certainly at least partially as a watchdog, and must be at least in part under the leadership of whomever has power over it- Jacob, the leader of the Others, or whomever had access to the control room from which it has been summoned. I go with that last version, as why else would they build the Barracks over it, with pre-contrived secret doors relating to the Monster’s chamber? Perhaps Dr. Chang lived in that house before Ben did… or Horace.
sohrshah, I thought I heard you mention it in another post. Or, it was my intuition at work again?? lol
That is too bad, the picture isn’t any better. I do understand what you are saying about the glyphs. It wouldn’t make for easy translation, they way you describe it, but I thought I’d take a shot at it.
I absolutely love what you have to say about the function of the ‘smoke monster’.
It makes perfect sense, as does the last version, in fact I doubt I could have said it better.
Thanks for your wonderful insight!
Yeah it’s great work. question do glyphs matter if they are ever changing? and why is Lostpedia screwing them up. Apparently
what I mean by changing is that in the real world, meanings of characters changed over time, as did their use as being pictographs versus being syllabic. For example – Chinese is more character/pictograph based, and Japanese is a syllabic language made from a limited number of Chinese characters used as an alphabet. At the time of the Rosetta stone, hieroglyphs were part of a much more syllabic, sound based system than in earlier times. I can only assume that the glyphs in the series are based on these later examples, but I still cannot definitively translate them. I do think that the translations come relatively close to a basic meaning. The reason that the meanings given by scholars who probably know more than I do on Lostpedia are do different is because of the very specific nature of hieroglyphs. if a bird is mistaken for another bird, as in the example posed regarding the Swan Station glyphs, the entire concept can change. sorry to hijack the thread with glyphs. Let’s get back to the Monster and Dab’s theory.
sohrshah, I find it all quite fascinating, so no worries about hijacking!
If the monster is a realized thought and/or can made thoughts a reality, then perhaps it’s function is related to knowledge. It scans Juliet and Kate while they are in a Banyan tree, but otherwise, the tree (of knowledge) protects them.
Considering that Cerberus is shown to be capable of ripping up trees, why does it not bother people in Banyan trees?
This is where this stuff leads Sosh. That’s why Dabs knew to ask you(plus she is brilliant). Your insights are important and valuable.
sohrshah, I think you make some very interesting points about the ‘smoke monster’ and its function being related to knowledge.
There has to be something related to ‘the tree of knowledge’ that protects them.
While reading excerpts from the Book of Enoch, I read similar references about ‘the tree’. However, I wasn’t able to link it up symbollically.
It appears that the ‘smoke monster’ is assessing and perhaps making judgements, that in some cases lead to certain people being killed.
Dabs when you say ‘smoke monster’ Is assessing and perhaps making judgments, That it is a possibility that someone is guiding this.
Because the word judgment makes me think very seriously
Okay, here is what I got on my brief investigation of the Banyan Tree. This may be the reason why people are protected when the seek refuge under it.
From Wikipedia: In Hinduism, the banyan tree is considered sacred and is called “Ashwath Vriksha.” God Siva as Dakshinamurthy is nearly always depicted sitting in silence under the banyan with rishis at His feet. It is thought of as perfectly symbolizing eternal life due to its seemingly unending expansion.
If the banyan tree is considered to represent eternal life, perhaps whoever seeks refuge under it, is rendered safe!
That might be the reason the ‘smoke monster’ does no harm. Eternal life is also a ‘running theme’ on the show.
OT, thanks for the compliment. I am but a student of knowledge.
I doubt that anyone is guiding it, but perhaps there once was.
Now were gettin somewhere.
Maybe we need to look to Underworld mythology. Lost seems to use Egyptian/possibly Hebrew mythology along with Buddist and some Hindi themes, along with Christian undertones, and we know that gods and other icons of Death and the Underworld are involved. The Monster is definitely related to the watchdog of the Underworld, Cerberus. The giant Statue may be Osiris. Then there is this concept of the judgment and the angel of Death in the monster’s function…
I think a great deal hinges on the connection between Cerberus and Jacob. Are they from the same time or civilization, or did Jacob come from the Black Rock or some later time? Which influenced the other?
No. Hurley comes from black rock.
What if the Monster is a representation of Ammit? Look here- an explanation of the Underworld. the Underowlrd is essentially a gateway to the world of the gods, where a person’s soul and body must remain intact, and where their heart is weighed (judged?)
“In order to reach the realm of the gods, the Egyptians believed a person must first travel through the Underworld, where their heart is weighed on a scale by Anubis (son of Osiris and Nepthys) and Thoth (Kinnaer 2). All of a person’s good and bad deeds would be considered. If a person had committed an excess amount of bad deeds, a monster known as “Eater of the Dead,” or Ammit, with the head of a crocodile, would eat the hearts weighed down with sin.”
found here: http://iml.jou.ufl.edu/projects/Fall04/Hilton/underworld.htm
Oh! Your Banyan Tree explanation is perfect! more with the ankh, everlasting life, etc. Maybe it is for this reason too that Paul wore an Ankh…
sohrshah, I tried to look up some Underworld mythology. It was difficult, without knowing exactly what to search for.
Perhaps, we don’t really need it to be exact. It seems as though we do have enough background, to say that it is all these things mentioned.
As with all aspects of faith, religion, spirituality, myths, and folklore, etc., other civilizations throughout the world adopted many of the original beliefs into their own cultures.
I think Cerebrus as the watchdog of the Underworld, is correct. Now that we can safely assume the Banyan tree represents eternal life, we can at least say that is why it doesn’t always kill those who seek its protection.
Chances are the statue represents eternal life or aspects of life.
The concept of judgement is in the nature of the ‘smoke monster’. ‘Angel of Death’ is a good moniker.
Depending upon whether Jacob is of ‘ancient’ origin may mean a lot, or it may only mean, that aspects of the original ‘ancient’ peoples were ‘watered down’ along the way.
I’m not sure which case this is, and how the interpretations may have been handed down, if it were along the way.
My thoughts are, Jacob seems to be the only one who has ever been mentioned as ‘HIM’, so I think it may be just that.
hurley? thats interesting.
dabs, thanks for the information on the banyan tree. you know, maybe they are in “purgatory” after all 🙂
username, I have thought about this aspect from day one of Lost, as I’m sure many people have.
I am not so certain, it is ‘the losties’ who will be receiving ‘final judgement’.
I have a feeling it goes beyond that! Think, biblical proportions!
the Apocalypse, the four horseman type of thing…
I definitely think there are elements of an ‘Apocalyptic’ nature involved.
There are some aspects of Lost, we have not yet perceived, to know what the ‘end game’ is all about.
I see the three sides of it, though. Just like the three heads of the ‘smoke monster’.
In Hindu culture, the banyan tree is also called kalpavriksha meaning ‘wish fulfilling divine tree’.
**WIKIPEDIA.ORG**
the banyan, is said to be home to a variety of spirits and demon-like creatures. Id.
In Fiction, Robinson Crusoe, makes his home in a banyan tree..
Hi willis, It definitely appears the Banyan tree has mystical properties.
I wonder if the smoke monster is frightened of the ‘properties’ of the tree, and what it represents?
Cool find!
Well, well, well, I see we’ve been hiding treasure from our pals huh? I thought you and I were better than this Dabsi, not letting me even have a whiff of this coming. I’ll be honest, I gave up my ‘smokey’ research long ago. You may notice that I have NEVER attempted an explanation of him. I know my boundries…our boundries, we werent supposed to figure out smokey at all. He is a wild card, much like Jacob, the possibilities seem endless. I have seen many theories touch the monster, and they are the reason I steer clear. Anything could be correct, and anything could be wrong. Even with this find, they could still pull the rug out from under us. But you know what, this is honestly too…accurate to be false. I honestly dont think there is anything else, at this point, that would make more sense. I have read a few theories saying it becomes peoples thoughts, but this, the explanation, the actual name. (side note: I HATE giving names like this to things, places, events on the show, but for some reason, I almost expect to here this on the show). I have no negative thoughts. No questions. Not even a ‘what if?’. This is genius. Why this particular creature. Ive read hundreds of theories, and none make more sense. What made you discover this particular creature Dabsi, I have to know?
Bravo, 10/10, 5stars, +1, youre going to Disneyland with this one. Dabsi, I dont care what they say, you know Im you biggest fan. We havent had a deep discussion in a while, and this is a good place to begin. I have absolutley nothing to take away from this theory, but a few things to add. Great job Dabsi!
From wiki…
“Thoughtform may be understood as a ‘psychospiritual’ complex of mind, energy or consciousness manifested either consciously or unconsciously, by a sentient being or in concert. In the Dzogchen view, accomplished thoughtform of the kye-rim (Tibetan) mode are sentient beings as they have a consciousness field or mindstream confluence in a dynamic of entrainment-secession and organization-entropy of emergent factors or from the mindstream intentionality of progenitor(s). Thoughtform may be benevolent, malevolent or of complex alignment and may be understood as a ‘spontaneous or intentional manifestation’ or ’emergence'[10] (Tibetan: rang byung) of the ‘Five Pure Lights’ (Tibetan: ‘od lnga). The Five Pure Lights may be understood as the ‘radiance’ (Tibetan: ‘od) or Clear Light (Tibetan: ‘od gsal) substrate[11] of ‘mindstream’ (Tibetan: sems rgyud) and the base or root ‘dimensionality of all dharmas’ (Sanskrit: dharmadhatu) of Nirvana and Samsara. The mindstream is an entwining or confluence of the ‘Eight Consciousnesses’ (Tibetan: rnam shes tshogs brgyad). Therefore, the Five Pure Lights are the ‘root’ (Tibetan: gzhi) of the Western scientific conceptions of matter and energy. From the Dzogchen perspective energy is nondual to ‘spiritual energy’ or ‘vital force’ (Tibetan: rlung). For the human species, defined in Traditional Tibetan medicine as the class of entities which holds a human ‘la'[12] (Tibetan: bla), the Five Lung are direct homologues of the Five Pure Lights.”
You didnt miss that magic word did you…dharma, if you did, read it again. THis is from wiki on tulpas. Theses more…
“Spiritual lineage
Jansen (1990: p.7-8) in her treatise on singing bowls relates the experience that David-Néel narrated in her book Tibet, Bandits, Priests and Demons:
When she entered the temple of the Bön monastery of Tesmon, the service that was being conducted was rudely interrupted. While a lama was busy with a kyilkhor, a magic diagram, and sacred cakes, called tormas, one of her bearers entered the temple, clearly indicating that he was not very impressed by the sacred rituals. He was ordered away by the monks. Objecting and cursing violently he insulted the lamas by shouting out that the tormas were only made of momo dough (bread dough).
‘(…)Then, as the man came forward, the bonpo[18] grasped a chang, [19] which was standing next to him, and swung it around. Strange, savage sounds filled the room with a tidal wave of vibrations that pierced my ears. The disrespectful peasant screamed and staggered back with his arms held up as though he was warding off something threatening. ‘Get out’, the lama repeated again. The other bearers grabbed their friend and rushed out of the temple, greatly disturbed. Bong! Bong! continued the drum. The accompanying bonpo returned unpurturbed, sat in front of the kyilkhor, and continued the muffled singing and chanting. What had happened? I hadn’t noticed anything, except for that extraordinary sound. I went outside and asked my bearers. The troublemaker who had disturbed the sacred ritual had lost his bravado. ‘It was a snake. I tell you’, he said, nodding to the others who sat around him. ‘A snake of fire came out of the chang.’ ‘What? Did you really see a snake of fire?’ I asked. ‘Is that why you recoiled?’ ‘Didn’t you see it?’ they replied. ‘It came out of the chang when the lama beat upon it.’ ‘You must have dreamt it,’ I said. ‘I didn’t see anything.’ ‘We didn’t see the snake, but we did see flashes of light shoot out of the chang,’ the other bearers interjected. In fact, they had all been witnesses to a miracle.”
A little story involving the tulpa…snake of fire…come on. You have to agree with this. They have to tell us that your right Dabsi…they have to.
I cant make this stuff up, seriously. Wait until you read this next part. Dabsi, if you missed this, you better sit down.
“Thoughtform are evident in Vajrayana Buddhism, Bönpo traditions, indigenous cultural traditions throughout the world such as Cherokee of North America and Indigenous Australians (who understand the waking, created world to be a thoughtform subset of The Dreaming[23]), shamanic traditions, echoes are evident in ghosts or supernatural agency, folk religion, esoteric philosophies such as Theosophy and what is construed as the New Age.
Though Alice Bailey may have been inspired (and comparable to a tertön), her collaborative work with Djwal Khul, A Treatise on Cosmic Fire, that evocatively described the process for working with thoughtforms, is not formally recognised by the Himalayan dharmic traditions. Thoughtform are not only the energetic phantasmagoria of our consciousness and mindstream, either intentional or unconscious, but may also constitute an emotional filter (refer trance, NLP) or lens that shapes the play of our phenomenal experience; as per the incisive quotation of Bailey et. al.(1951: p.489) in A Treatise on White Magic:
“A thought-form can also act as a poisoning agent, and poison all the springs of life….A violent dislike, a gnawing worry, a jealousy, a constant anxiety, and a longing for something or someone, may act so potently as an irritant or poison that the entire life is spoilt, and service is rendered futile. The entire life is embittered and devitalized by the embodied worry, hatred and desire….and is held back by the poison in his [sic.[24]] mental system. His vision becomes distorted, his nature corroded, and all his relationships impeded by the wearing, nagging thoughts which he himself embodies in form and which have a life so powerful that they can poison him.”
It may be valuable to extend the water metaphor of “the springs of life” aformentioned to include the mindstream. We now know from emergent disciplines that thoughts and emotions are chemical as well as electrical processes, refer neuropeptides, and may be potentially toxic. So we may indeed be driven, railroaded and possessed by our thoughtforms and emotions: called in popular currency ‘our demons’. These ‘demons’ or ‘poisons’ in Hindu and Buddhist traditions are known as kle
sohrshah, I don’t know why your comment didn’t appear, but here it is from the message, I received.
Comment: What if the Monster is a representation of Ammit? Look here- an explanation of the Underworld. the Underowlrd is essentially a gateway to the world of the gods, where a person’s soul and body must remain intact, and where their heart is weighed (judged?) “In order to reach the realm of the gods, the Egyptians believed a person must first travel through the Underworld, where their heart is weighed on a scale by Anubis (son of Osiris and Nepthys) and Thoth (Kinnaer 2). All of a person’s good and bad deeds would be considered. If a person had committed an excess amount of bad deeds, a monster known as “Eater of the Dead,” or Ammit, with the head of a crocodile, would eat the hearts weighed down with sin.” found here: http://iml.jou.ufl.edu/projects/Fall04/Hilton/underworld.htm
I love the “Eater of the Dead” depiction of the ‘smoke monster’. This definitely has to have merit, given the ancient ties to ‘the island’, I just can’t imagine what else it could represent!
AES, wow, did you ever do your homework!! I love the information you unearthed. That’s impressive! It certainly adds to the overall idea of the smoke monster’.
If anyone could have written a theory on the ‘smoke monster’, you definitely could have done it justice! Don’t underestimate yourself! You certainly gave way to many positive thoughts and validations for this theory! And, I thank you!
When you think about it AES, I doubt we will ever get a full depiction of what the ‘smoke monster’ is from the show. They will likely state it is a manifestation of ‘the island’ itself and/or Jacob. They will elude to what it is, and how it ties in with the story, and that will be enough to give us an idea of what it is and how it came to be and why it’s there, doing what has been doing.
These explanations concerning, Tulpa’s/Thoughtforms, Egrigore’s, and the references to the monster itself, ‘snake of fire’, ‘Eater of the Dead’, Cerebrus, etc., lead me to believe we are on the right track! Throw into the mix, the words, Underworld, Dharma, Carl Jung, Eternal Life, etc., and we are keeping in line with the story!
I wasn’t holding out on you, either! lol I actually wrote most of this theory, just after Season 3 began! ‘Enquiring minds’, (mine) had to know what the ‘smoke monster was, so I began my quest.
As we are revisiting many of the key elements to Lost, and winding down to approaching some of the answers, I felt it was time to put this theory out, and get some thoughts going on it.
I knew I could count on you, to be a strong contributor. The comments received have been extremely positive, for a concept that is relatively unheard of, so I thank everyone for their contributions, thus far!
The only problem I have with this is where you talked about the five pure lights… everyone knows that there are four lights!
highbrow, I haven’t mentioned anything about ‘lights’ in my theory and/or discussion.
You say everyone knows there are four???? Not sure who your comment was directed at and/or what it means!
It would not, detract from the theory, in essence. Especially, if you are referring to the discussion, as we are sharing ideas. The input received from the comments are, awesome, IMO. I have no complaints!
I was making a joke… it was something from the comment from AES…
Picture Captain Picard yelling “There are.. four… lights!” when he was being tortured by that Cardasian… Sorry…
I do the same thing all the time Highbrow. Thank goodness for the enduring qualities of my neighbors here. Who love this show.
Yeah…
You see, the cardasian thought that he could show Captain Picard four lights and get him to attest that there were five lights by torturing him. The captain, being totally awesome, never broke.
lol highbrow, I never made the connection at all, and I should have caught it! I couldn’t recall any lights anywhere in the discussion! haha No wonder!
It’s not nice to mess with the Dabsi’s ‘little melon’ so early in the day! lol
“Beam me aboard, Captain”
So early in the day? It’s almost 2pm! Where are you?
The lights thing was burried in that super long post from AES…
I initially read this, and the comments, very early in the morning!
I assure you, I am very much awake, now!
what project do i put my time spent towards reading theories on lost forum for work? can i slot it as admin? 🙂
username, I’d go with Admin, but if they get all technical on you, slot it in as Continuing Education! lol
Thanks for reminding me to do my timecard… I think I’ll put this time under Trouble Ticket Administration because that makes it sound like I was working…
I’m unemployed, so it doesn’t matter where I categorize it!
BTW, I’d go with Admin. 😉
Hey dabs (wow what a long thread!)
The episode was Hell House and it was from Season 1. I remember the very cool tunes from Blue Oyster Cult 🙂
I dont know if anyone has mentioned this before if so sorry. Whatever the sound is that we hear right before we smokey I think I heard it ever so slightly twice and it made me wonder how smokey operates.
Both times it was when Jack was in his cage on hydra. Once was when the sheriff lady came out to talk to him about Juliet I believe it was at night. You hear the noise( I think of crickets when I hear it) rite before she appears then they have there conversation.
Another time is when Jack is in there and that group walks by. The one with the flight attendant. You hear the noise then they approach and have that little encounter with Jack. When this scene ends it breaks away to a campfire with carl, Kate and sawyer. right into the smoke of the fire
carolyndee, thanks so much, I will be in hot pursuit of “Hell House” in Season 1 of Supernatural, first chance I get!
OT, I never paid attention to the noises in those episodes, but I will definitely watch out for them, on my next re-watch of them!
Seems like the ‘smoke monster’ is quite good at imitation.
Maybe Smokey watches over his people. Or the sound guys like to use the Smokey effects for suspense, or when the audience is being set up to judge…
great research everyone and thumbs up to dabs for original post.
Well I do believe that it is mentioned that it was made to protect the temple, in the episode with the french people and jin traversing the jungle. However i believe it may be made from time travel, and future technology.
Also want to mention, that when I say time travel and future technology, well there are two sides to time travel, past and future. So why is there so much from the past, but not so much about the future. Maybe the smoke monster is that example of the future.
OMGLOST, I guess there is only one problem with that, which is, nobody can explain it, and/or its purpose, when put in the future tense, and/or technology.
Hey Dabs just wanted to quickly say the reason I catch things like that as far as hearing certain sounds is because when I watch Lost I watch it on my computer and play video games at the same time in my office at home. So every now and then you hear a little smokey and believe me (as you know I have been watching the series over again) I have noted what times I hear what I think is smokey. And I’ll tell ya what your Theory is eerily lining up with some evidence. I really must get back to work. This place is addicting. Be back later.
OT, please make sure you let me know in future episodes when you hear it again!
With all that goes on in these episodes, I somehow miss certain aspects. That is one of them.
I do believe that I may be on the right track with this one, OT. We’ll certainly see.
Incredible, I love it. Point on Michael the Archangel from the bible (i was born catholic, that’s my middle name): The Michael on the show does not exhibit characteristics of the Biblical – Michael was/is the general of god’s armies poised to wage war on the Devil. OMG – to hold true to the majority of time theories, we cannot travel to the future, for it has not happened yet. It’s like when I TiVo/DVR Lost…I can rewind it to scenes i’ve scene, but if I watch while it airs, I can’t go past the present moment.
Can’t wait to read more on this whole theory. Thanks.
TehIgnored, so glad you like this theory! The more we see of ‘the smoke monster’, the more I feel these ideas might tie in nicely with the rest of the story!
Hey dabs. The smoke monster is just one of oh so many things that boggles the mind. The first time that smokey appears in the timeline (as far as we know) is in 1988, is that correct? I have read a few theories in the distant past (it has been awhile since I have really thougt about Smokey; love fades, you know :-)) that seemed to believe that he was some sort of course correction device. How could that fit in with Jacob and the future DI theory?
How about this? I have been thinking about the science vs. faith aspect of the show. THe writers have many times referenced the book “the stand” by stephen king. You probably now that this is an apocolyptic tale about a virus that kills off the world (or most of it) and the battle between the good people and bad people left. Good, being led by Mother Abigail, Bad, by ?. Can’t remember off hand. Anyway, I think that there will be a very similiar aspect of this on Lost. That being said. I think that when “Jacob” uses the Orchid to zap himself into the future and becomes unstuck from time (and can affect change), the universe will respond/try to achieve balance by creating the smoke monster. I think that is why the black stuff was around Jacob’s cabin. It is trying to harness him.
So, we ask ourselves, if that is true and Jacob and the smoke monster are opposites, working to counter act each other, why do they both seem to like Locke. Locke looks at the smoke monster and sees something beautiful and Jacob reaches out to Locke via help me. I think that is where the faith aspect will come in play. I think right at this moment, Locke’s destiny is up in the air. I think he is up for grabs between the light side and the dark side. It is all about choice. Christian tell Locke (when he is turning the donkey wheel), just beyond this pillar there is a wheel, turn it. Locke says are you going to help me. Christian, no, I’m not. I think that this might be the dark side. He can’t go past the pillar. If he is just an hallucination, why not? I had a really bad feeling about John going to see Jacob. I really did. I think that this is where the faith aspect is going to come into play and the one thing that cannot be take from a person. FREE WILL. Locke has to choose whichever path that he is going to walk and he has to make those choices alone. I think that the losties can be manipulated. Seeds planted. Those kinds of things. I think that is why the future DI is going through all of these games. The reason they can’t just change the past is because it is against the one universal/spiritual law that cannot be broken. You cannot negate free will. It is the glue/the stability/the constant that holds the universe together and makes us different from the angels and the animals. Free will. I know I ranted. Not really a theory, just a stream of thought. I will probably change my mind if 5 minutes.
Hi HurleyBird, I can’t recall the year the smoke monster makes his first debut on the program, off hand. Whether it was prior to Danielle and her team, or at that very time.
I have read “The Stand”, one of my all time favourite reads! I devoured that book in 2 days! It has been a long time, and I was aware that the writers, love the book and have based Lost on some of what is in the story.
The intersecting between the characters and the groups themselves, makes Lost very confusing and confounding. I don’t think if I can say who is good and who is evil. I keep jumping around on those lines, and wonder if both of these elements are present in the characters, in a way making them unpredictable and able to change focus for whatever reason at any time.
I wasn’t able to post this, in my Richard, Ben and the Temple theory, because of the length it was at already, but in my research, I found something which speaks to the free will aspects, which reminded me of Ben and his statement to Jack, “I want you to want to help me”.
It is also present in the biblical story of Adam & Eve when tempted by choice.
If we take this at face value, are we to infer this is what Ben is doing? Tempting them with choice!
I’m not sure what to think, as we are being thrown so many curve balls.