Kate is Preggo! (Oceanic 815/Ajira 316 Parallel)
Theory: Yes, I think that Kate is pregnant.
Why?
It all goes along with the what Eloise said to the Oceanic Six before the return to island. Let me explain.
ELOISE: Come on in.
JACK: Ben and Sun-
ELOISE: Heard what they needed to hear, and this does not concern them. [She looks through a large amount of papers on the desk.] Oh. Here we are. [She brings a battered envelope to Jack. We see it has “Jack Shephard” written on the front.]
JACK: What’s this?
ELOISE: It’s John Locke’s suicide note.
[Thunder continues rumbling]
JACK: [Sighs] Uh… I, uh… I didn’t know.
ELOISE: Well, why would you? Obituaries don’t see fit to mention when people hang themselves, Jack.
JACK: [Sighs] Why would he kill himself?
ELOISE: Ohh… there are many reasons, I’m sure, but the only one that matters is this–he is going to help you get back. John is going to be a proxy. A substitute.
JACK: A substitute for who?
ELOISE: Jack… who do you think? You need to, as best you can, recreate the conditions of the original flight… which is why you need to give John something of your father’s. You have to get something that belonged to your father, and you need to give it to John.
JACK: What?
ELOISE: That’s what you have to do.
JACK: My father… is gone. My father has been dead for three years. You want me to… [scoffs] a–and to give it to Locke?! He’s in a coffin! This is ridiculous.
ELOISE: Oh, stop thinking how ridiculous it is and start asking yourself whether or not you believe it’s going to work. That’s why it’s called a leap of faith, Jack.
Transcript thanks to Lostpedia.com, Season 5–episode 6 “316” (Link)
Eloise explains, rather vaguely, that they have to “recreate” the first plane crash as best the can in order for the second crash to find the island. That’s why Locke had to die and why Jack had to give him something of his father’s. Now the way I believe it had to work was not that they had have all the same situations on the second plane that they did on the first, that would be impossible, but moreso that everyone from Oceanic 815 that was going to be on flight 316 had to fit the role of someone from Oceanic 815 whether it was by being themself again or by fitting the situation of someone else (the other passengers excluded from this as the island doesn’t know them yet so it doesn’t matter–they’re created their own original situation)–that seems straightforward and it’s easy to pick out as they’re boarding the plane.
[As Jack walks through the plane he sees Sayid. Sayid looks up and looks like he wants to say something, but then he looks at the woman next to him and frowns, avoiding Jack’s eyes. Jack sees Sun, next. She has Jin’s ring in her hands. Jack sees Kate. She’s keeping her head low and looking away.]
JACK: You made it.
KATE: [taking off her sunglasses] Yeah, I made it.
[Jack continues walking to his seat and sits down.]
[Hurley enters, carrying a guitar case in front of him.]
FLIGHT ATTENDANT: That should be everybody.
Transcript thanks to Lostpedia.com, Season 5–episode 6 “316” (Link)
So the Oceanic Six (plus Locke and minus Aaron) are all here. Jack, Kate, Sayid, Sun, Hurely and Locke. The fact that Ben and Frank are there too is irrelevant (at least for now) because they weren’t on Ocean Six so they have nothing to recreate just as none of the other passengers do either. It’s these Six who have to recreate the role of a previous 815 character in order for the island to accept them back–that’s what Eloise says, we don’t know why, that’s just the way it is.
Hurley is taking on the role of Charlie here. I’m not entirely sure but I think the guitar might actually be Charlie’s–either way though, it clearly shows that he’s brought a guitar just like Charlie did that first flight. Hurley’s on board and the island will recognize him for filling Charlie’s spot, or at least having something of Charlie’s.
Sayid is taking on Kate’s old role as the fugitive in handcuffs with a “special friend” beside him to watch over him–we also know that Alana, Sayid’s special friend, knew where guns were (we see her and those other dude’s with a buttload of guns during episode 11) and it’s likely that they were hers because she knew Sayid was dangerous–just as the Marshal, Mars, from season one had a buttload of guns because he knew, or believed that Kate was dangerous. So Sayid is on board and the island will recognize him for filling Kate’s original role.
Sun and Jack are two that can go either of two ways and I’m not entirely sure that it matters but I’ll explain both anyway.
Sun and Jack could either be simply themselves since little has changed with them and they can therefore fill their own previous roles, or Sun could be compared to Rose and Jack to Charlie (I’m not sure if both Hurley and Jack can work as Charlie-fillers, but who knows). Sun is still a married Korean woman and Jack is still a doctor so they can technically still be themselves. But the episode specifically shows Sun fingering Jin’s wedding ring and this can be paralleled to Rose who wore her husband Bernard’s wedding ring around her neck and fingered it similarly before the crash, waiting to see him again when he “gets back from the bathroom”. Jack was also somewhat of a junkie since he became addicted to that drug and this again parallels Charlie–either way, the island will recognize them.
Locke is obviously Christian Shepard, Jack’s (and Claire’s) father as this is the one example we’re actually 100% sure of since Eloise Hawking uses him as a direct example of this weird sort of role filling the gang has to do in order to be accepted back to the island. He’s dead, he’s in a coffin, and he’s wearing Christian’s shoes so he fills that role and the island will take him back as such.
Now when I was thinking all this through while watching them get on the plane (I was going–“oh, look, Hurley’s got a guitar! Sayid’s in handcuffs–o.m.g!” and totally geeking out that the writers are such geniuses, as if that wasn’t already apparent) I found myself wondering how Kate fit in. She can’t fit the role of herself because she’s no longer a fugitive, she’s a free woman and not in handcuffs, no wanted, no marshal with a pack of guns watching her. She can’t be Sun because she’s not a married Korean woman. She can’t be Ana Lucia because she’s not a cop, can’t be Libby because she’s not insane nor a psychiatrist, she can’t be Rose because she’s not a married black woman waiting for her husband and fingering his wedding ring, she has no obvious role to fill–so then I thought of Claire. HOLY CRAP SHE’S A YOUNG, UNMARRIED PREGNANT WOMAN–AH!
It works other ways too because if you think about it, Claire was pregnant with Christian Shepard’s grandson, since he was her father, the baby–Aaron–had Christian’s third-generation blood in it, right? And Jack is also the child of Christian Shepard and the same blood runs through his veins, so any child of his would also be the grandson of Christian Shepard.
Now, back in Season Three when Juliet was first introduced as the defecting Other, we found out that she was taking samples from all the woman to see if they were pregnant and there was this whole big deal where “Austen” was the next one but we never found if she was or not (knowing that her and Sawyer had been together) and Kate was worried for the rest of the season until discovering that she wasn’t. That whole plot seemed weird and random and it was sort of a reoccurring theme that Kate was worried about being pregnant.
She was the one who helped Sun out when Sun found out she was pregnant and there Sun asked her if she’d ever taken a pregnancy test and of course Kate got that look in her eyes that means “flashback will be arriving soon”.
In the flashback within a later episode we watch her entire story about married life with police officer Kevin, just so she can take a pregnancy test, freak out, and then drug him and leave with the excuse of “I was almost pregnant”. Okayyyy.
Next her and Sawyer and that whole deal happens and while at the Dharma village she talks to Claire and we see her deer-in-headlights reaction to Claire asking her to pick up Aaron so he’ll stop crying. Again–why? Who cares?
Then Claire says “you try it sometime” in reference to having a baby and later Kate seems confused about the whole kid deal. While in bed with Sawyer we find out that she now knows she’s not pregnant and Sawyer is jubilant while she still seems confused and then gets angry with his over-the-top joyful reaction and leaves.
Finally we see Kate deciding to take Aaron as her own and, with the help of Cassidy, it’s revealed to both us and to Kate that she “needed him”–needed this child to look after and love. Okay–but clearly she can’t have Aaron, he’s not hers, he can’t stay with her forever, and no matter what she thinks, she’ll never be his mother. So the thing she needs she can’t get simply by claiming. Hmm.
[Jack walks into his apartment and closes the door. He flicks on the light switch and goes to the kitchen. He pours a drink and we hear the door close. Jack stops pouring and looks around. Jack hears footsteps and a light thud. Jack slowly walks through his apartment and into his bedroom where he finds someone lying on the bed. He moves closer and sees it’s Kate.]
JACK: Kate? What are you doing here?
KATE: Are you still going back to the Island?
JACK: Yeah. Yeah, I think I am.
KATE: Then I’m going with you.
JACK: Kate… what happened? Where’s Aaron? Where–
KATE: [Getting up and facing Jack] No, don’t ask questions. If you want me to go with you… you’ll never ask me that question again. You will never ask me about Aaron. Do you understand, Jack?
JACK: Yes.
KATE: Thank you.
[They kiss, Jack takes off his suit-coat, and they lie on the bed.]
Transcript thanks to Lostpedia.com, Season 5–episode 6 “316” (Link)
I think it’s easily implied what happens here Kate being who she is and us knowing what she does when she’s “sad”. Coincidentally this takes place the night before they leave to go home and off the island which makes things considerably better if it works out the way I think because at least she won’t die like Juliet believes happened to all the other women who got pregnant on the island. I think that this had to happen just as Sayid had to get arrested, Sun had to end up with Jin’s ring, Jack had to get depressed and strung out on drugs and Hurley had to be visited by Charlie and procure a guitar (perhaps we’ll see a flashback of how Hurley got a guitar–maybe Charlie came back to visit him again, we know that it was Charlie who first began visiting Hurley so it might very well be that he told Hurley to take his guitar or even gave it to him) and Locke had to die. It all had to happen and Kate had to get pregnant. She needed someone’s shoes to fill (no pun intended–hehe Locke) and that was Claire’s.
A final note to this, although I don’t think it really has much to do with anything is that when Kate gave up Aaron in the last episode “Dead is Dead” to his grandmother she also revealed that her reason for going back to the island is to find Claire and somehow, for some reason she believes that Claire is alive. I think we can probably trust this because it seems like everyone has had some sort of weird epiphany without reason about the island and why they have to go back and I can’t see why that would happen if it wasn’t true. Going from “I’m never going back there” to “I’m going back to find Claire, she’s alive” in like a matter of days seems pretty hardcore.
So, while this isn’t some huge, earth-shattering theory about the meaning of the island, I really think that the parallels between the 815/316 flights have meaning to them for the specific characters and it seems to me that the only conclusion that fits into the picture is that Kate is preggo and Jack’s going to be papa. 🙂
I reaally dont think Kate is Preggo…if she were, she would probably be a little more careful on the island..
I think Kate is preggers. She doesn’t know it yet though.
Yeah–A.E.S. clearly she wouldn’t know it yet so she wouldn’t need to be careful. By this point it’s still only been a few days since the plane trip (and the night before the plane trip was her and Jack), I don’t think she’d have any idea for weeks, maybe even a month or two yet.
i think she is.
but what was that all about on hydra island?
she was asked to shower, put on a pretty dress, by tom/mr friendly. put in a cage with sawyer?! jack watches, while they make out.
was this a plan by ben and others to get kate preggies by sawyer not jack,to change future events?
If they really wanted to change future events for sure they could have just killed her… or had Juliet sterilize her…
Jack is pregnant too.
Oooh, good theory teenbee. I wonder? And yeah now that I think about it, that was weird. Hm. But either way, the main thing for me is just that Kate has to fill some sort of role from the old Oceanic 815 crew. I can’t think of anyone else she could have been except Claire. They made a point of showing that everyone had something in common with an old passenger all except Kate…
The purpose of having Jack watch Kate and Sawyer in the cage was to get Jack to do the surgery in exchange for a trip off the island. They needed to take away his reason for staying.
Well I think that was true in the moment but I don’t think they really could have planned that…although they do know that Kate and Sawyer were sort of the most “promiscuous” when in emotional situations so I guess they could have just banked it on high odds.
highbrow, i dont think they could just kill her, it had to be her choice, ben menipulated the situation as usual, set the scene to make it more likely the event would happen
They couldn’t have killed her anyway because of the whole “what happened, happened” thing. Kate had to show up in the past (her future) in order to save Ben and therefore she could not have died before then. The island simply wouldn’t have let it happen, so, yeah.
Yes, but I don’t think the purpose was to get Kate knocked up. What would be the point of having Jack watch?
jack watching…..hes less likely to have relationships with kate after he sees them together
the real important thing is, if kate is already pregnant, than I can get with her and not worry about being the father! wooohoooo
Good one! Of course since she doesn’t know about it yet she’ll suspect you… and Roger… You’re all going to end up on Maury reading suspenseful paternity test results…
I thought about this before… I think it’s definitely plausable but I have a feeling that Kate isn’t pregnant. I also have a theorie that even if she is then she’s a lot less months than Claire was…
Love this theory – well thought out and completely fits. I hope it turns out to be true!!
Definitely much less along than Clair was. I think Jack only put the bun in the oven a few days ago…
I don’t think Hurley’s really that great at guitar, but it doesn’t matter. Only the basics have to be the same, i.e. having a guitar, not really playing, and being pregnant, not how far along.
Exactly Mojo, I’m not sure about the guitar being Charlie’s either, it was just a thought, but the point is–he had a guitar. Same deal with the pregnancy, it doesn’t matter that she’s not 8 months but probably about one day pregnant–it just matters that she’s pregnant and with Christian Shepard’s grandchild.
Another thing I’ve noticed too, random, but it supports the theory too is that the writers of Lost seem to love babies and childbirth. Has anyone else noticed that? Since I watched all five seasons pretty much back-to-back I was like “dude–another woman giving birth? We just had this like four episodes ago!” I don’t know, it just seems like there’s something with Lost and babies.
I think your theory is really good… so let’s assume Kate is pregnant with Jack’s kid. Does this mean that their child, like Miles, Charlotte, and Ethan, was on the island in future time (past seasons)? The child would have been 27-28ish in Seasons 1-4 time. I’m just thinking, what if he was on Flight 815 too? Or is one of the others?
I think maybe Jack just represents himself in this one. He’s escorting a corpse again, right?
I feel like we had this discussion 6 episodes ago. People then to were torn about whether Kate is pregnant, but that issue quickly lost importance to some other ones. Interesting to think about it again now after some time has been spent on the island.
I think Roger asking Kate if she had children was more than just to be comedic since Kate lies about having one. Maybe she is going to have one soon.
This is a really interesting theory… I think what everyone is forgetting, though, is that Kate is still obviously not over Sawyer, so she’s SAYID, not CLAIRE. When 815 crashed, Sayid was on his way to LA, searching for his loved one, Nadia. Kate is trying to get back to Sawyer, which was made even more clear in a later episode (I forgot which number or title, sorry!) when Kate says something like “I don’t know why they came back but I know why I did.” That’s not a direct quote but you get the point.
Not to say that this theory is wrong!! I would much rather Kate be preggo, it would take her closer to Jack again and away from going after Sawyer (Juliet is so much better for him!).. But she could have just as easily been playing the role of SAYID, just as he was playing her role as fugitive..
I guess you’re probably right about Jack, I don’t know though, it just seems like an added bonus that Jack was sort of a druggie too–but I guess he must have been clean by the time the whole plane thing happened, Locke through away his meds. And yeah, he is still a doctor escorting a corpse so–he’s fine the way he is.
Cappayne: Sorry then, I’m totally new to this site and relatively new to the world of Lost so I’m not really familiar with anything that’s been discussed so far. I definitely think there have been way too many suspiciously random comments and scenes regarding Kate and babies/pregnancy. At the very least I think there will be something more to this if not that she’s actually pregnant–there’s just something here. It’s weird. ALl these scenes that seem to have no place whatsoever in an episode! Like the one where Claire asks Kate to hold Aaron–that’s one I have a major problem with because back in season one and two there are at least a couple of scenes where she’s holding Aaron for Claire and helping out with him (like the one where Claire’s trying to remember what happened while she was kidnapped–Claire holds Aaron and cradles him and stuff no problem while Claire’s doing an “amnesia” session with Libby). So why bring up now that she has baby issues?
I’m not at all sure on how it will play out if she is pregnant (if she’ll actually have a baby, or if something will happen, etc) but I am definitely becoming certain that something’s up here.
Whatliesintheshadow: Thanks for the theory approval–and yeah I thought about that a lot–who the kid would be if he was actually born. I’m not sure though, I think that if Kate is preggo and does have a baby that it would most likely not be in the past because I doubt Kate would give up on her child so easily as that and since we know that her old self has no memory relationship with a son and “whatever happened, happened” then clearly she couldn’t have made any attempt to inform her “past” (aka future) self that she had a son out there. I don’t know, I just can’t see Kate leaving her kid–especially after we’ve seen her with Aaron (the supermarket scene)–back in the 70’s alone and orphaned. Unless she dies. Or something…which is possible. I’m unsure on that issue.
Who knows what could happen, I mean–this is Lost.
Really good theory! I never even thought about how she fit in on 316 in regards to filling another character’s shoes. But it all makes sense, and I like how you tied in the fact that it would still be Christian’s grandchild if it was Jack’s baby.
I wonder why Christian convinced Claire that she needed to leave Aaron behind and go chill with him in the cabin. Either way, whether she kept him or not, it wouldn’t have made a difference for the other 6’s return flight because either way Aaron would not have been on the plane.
Maybe the reason Claire had to hang with Christian in the cabin was so that Aaron would go with Kate. Maybe the island sort of knew that things had to happen that way in order for them to come back because if you think about it, Aaron is the reason Kate settled down and didn’t go galavanting over the globe again (in which case there’s about a 90% chance she would have landed in prison with triple life sentences). And it’s because of Aaron that Jack went crazy and became a druggie and that he and Kate became astranged. I mean think about it–they were all adament that they were not going back to the island under any circumstances ever…if they had been able to have a happy life together without Jack freaking out over his nephew/stepson/thing the neither of them would have gotten desperate enough to actually consider going back. I guess Aaron was sort of the catalyst for that–Claire had to let him go so that he could send everyone back. And also, if my theory is correct then the night Kate gets pregnant is the night she’s given up Aaron–if that hadn’t happened she would not have had any reason to do her sad thing with Jack and she would have had no purpose for going back to the island…
It all fits. It alll fits.
I still think she could have been playing Sayid’s part on 316, I want to believe she’s pregnant, but at the same time that would make Kate SO MUCH MORE ANNOYING. It’s possible we’re just reading way too much into it.
How would you define “Sayid’s part”? I don’t really remember it. To me it would make her less annoying I think, even though I like her as a character because she’s insane I’ve definitely been annoyed by her for the last…eh…three seasons. She was way better in season one when she was still sort of reserved and “outcasty” but, anyway. I think her being pregnant would bring out a really crazy side of her again since it’s apparently something she’s been very freaked out about in the past AND it’s something she can’t just run from which would probably send her over the edge. I love characters that are crazy! She’s been far too normal lately…same thing with Sawyer. I was so happy when Jack went cataclysmic! Ah that was great! Sawyer being all heroic makes me sad. 🙁
I think it would be soo great if Kate was pregnant because there’s a good chance at least four people would probably go off their rockers (Kate because she’d be pregnant, Jack because it’d be his, Sawyer because he’s confused about the whole “her” thing, and Juliet because she’d think she’s going to start killing babies again and because this time it’d be someone close to home on two accounts).
Another thing that adds evidence to this theory is the whole pregnancy/Juliet issue–we know it has to begin at some point between the hippee-losties’ time and the 815 losties’ time so I think we’re going to get an explanation soon. And someone has to get pregnant in order for the curse to begin. I dunno but I think it’s comin’. Even if it’s not Kate, it’s gotta be someone.
On a random sidenote: I can’t wait to see the answer to the Incident. Mmmm, it’s gonna be beautiful!
kateyislost = read above, the other comment I left… I explained how Kate could have been playing the part of Sayid in returning to the island (going after a loved one – Sawyer – like Sayid was going after Nadia), just as Sayid was playing her role as the fugitive. I explained it but everyone kind of skipped over it because they so desperately want Kate to be pregnant.
On the one hand, having a baby would probably make Kate more INTERESTING, but on the other hand, how annoying was Claire about “theyre trying to take my baby!”??? I can imagine Kate being similar, but worse. Also, the way she was about/with Aaron was very annoying, I think that Kate’s character as a mother would just be worse than she already is now. Granted, it would give her more depth than just a promiscuis woman who can’t decide if she wants Jack or Sawyer, but I think it would also have its major downsides.
No one is discussing the downsides of if Kate were to be pregnant.
Major upside, though — She’d be closer to Jack and get off Sawyer’s dick already. Honestly, he’s with Juliet, she just wants what she doesn’t/can’t have.
Random side note reply: In my opinion, I believe that the sidenote directly relates to the birth/pregnancy problems that the others face in the future. Most likely, after the incident, women who are pregnant die. Maybe radiation or whatever because of the electromagnetism/whatever.
That isn’t actually a random side note though, because IF KATE IS PREGNANT, aaand the incident is directly related to (or actually, the root cause of) the pregnancy problems on the island post-incident, then it should be interesting to see what happens to Kate and her baby, yes?
Hm, the only problem with the Sayid theory is that–yes–she does know why she came back, and so do we. She states that she’s “going back to find Claire”. That whole episode sort of led up to that revealing statement so I’m pretty sure it wasn’t a lie. Besides, she really didn’t seem that bummed at all when she found Sawyer, he looked sort of confused but in every scene with her looking at Sawyer it always seemed sort of like a “hey old buddy–funny how things turned out?” sort of way not a “how are you with Juliet? I came back here to find you!” sort of way.
PLUS. She states several times back on the island that she has nothing to go back for and quite honestly she seems sincere in that. Remember that scene where Jack was like “We have to go back Kate!” and she backed up her little cute compact vehicle into the parking lot, got her angry face and screamed at Jack for even mentioning that she should go back. She definitely made it clear that she had her heart broken by JACK and that all she had wanted was to live a normal life there, away from the island.
But even besides that, she stated clearly that her reason for going to back was to find Claire. Unless she was somehow lying which honestly seems ridiculous, that’s the end of that.
And I never saw anything even remotely resembling the idea that Kate still wants Sawyer. I quite honestly don’t think she ever loved him very deeply, I think she wanted to love him because she knew she was really in love with Jack but couldn’t get over all the baggage that came with that and so she wanted to love Sawyer, loved him to a degree but I don’t think it was ever anything more than something she had needed at the time. I think she loves him more like a best friend because he’s always there for her in ways that Jack can’t be because he understands that whole “convict” thing.
Maybe I missed something but I reallly don’t see any more Skate hints from Kate’s end. Sawyer–yes. Kate…she seems pretty done.
I agree that Kate with Aaron was annoying–it was just so out of character for her to be all lovey-dovey, but I think it was meant to show that that whole thing was wrong. Her and Jack weren’t meant to be Aaron’s parents and to act like such changed them both a great deal. I haven’t really thought very much about what it would be like for her to have a kid–ever since I realized this idea of her filling Claire’s role on the second plane, I imagined her either dying and starting the curse, having some huge dramatic something in regards to the baby being taken permanently, or it kidnapped or killed or something like that—I never imagined a scenario in which both Kate and the baby actually survive. I don’t know why, hm. I’ll have to contemplate that more.
I always imagined that this would be a very, very negative plot point for Kate. If it does happen and they both survive and Kate ends up being all mommy-like right of the bat then I’m going to be super disappointed. Thinking up this theory I was imagining chaos and character turmoil. I’m still hoping.
tambatism: didn’t see your sidenote about the sidenote, heehe! But yeah, I totally agree–that’s exactly what I think too and what I’m hoping for. I definitely think that the Incident is going to involve several ongoing mysteries including the the 108-minute button, the pregnancy thing and maybe how a few of the Losties stories end. Like I said in my above post, if the Kate preggo thing is true, then I’m hoping it’s not one of those “yeah, Kate’s a mommy” happy-ending things–I want imagine it as a major part of the issues and hopefully some long-awaited mayhem and insanity and turmoil. Hehehehe. It shall definitely be interesting!
I think you’re right. I just dont see why else they would have made it such a point to show that totally random and out of place sex scene the night before they left. It stuck out like a sore thumb, and that’s a good indication that there’s a deeper meaning there.
plus, as tambatism said, “She
I think it is actually Juliet that’s pregnant. Or maybe both. But did anyone else notice that weird moment when Juliet, Jack and Kate run into Rose and Bernard? She stops and lingers as they are leaving, with her hand placed on ther stomach in aweird “I’m actually pregnant” kinda way.
Just saying.
Mindefflost–actually I did notice that too, and I thought the same thing. But I hadn’t seen that episode yet when I wrote this so. I think the evidence for Kate is much more significant but I’m definitely on board for the Juliet theory too. Maybe it is both of them. Maybe Kate will have a little dark-haired baby boy and Juliet will have a little blonde boy if you get where I’m going….:O