The Incident Revised! Now with less Jean-Claude Van Dam!

This all came out in the comments on the last theory I wrote’ actually that was more of a synopsis, but whatever. I wanted to put it out in an independent theory so here goes.

What the hell happened in the Season Five Finale and what might we expect to see in the Season Six Premier.

The episode ‘The Incident’ I thought, was a pretty great episode. It left me, as I’ve read that it left others, a little worried that the show might actually be getting slightly lazy in its misdirection techniques but I’m hoping for the best. After next season I think that the path they’ve taken will be pretty well laid out for us to see and we’ll be left to interpret the meaning of things for ourselves which really is the way it should be. For now though it seems possible that the only reason we can’t figure out exactly what is going on is because the actions of the characters aren’t making any sense. Please, oh please, tell me that’s not the case!

Anyway, back to what happened and what’s coming. Jack and Co. are on a mission to change the past! Shocker, right? The shocker to me is that he’s actually got the rest of those people helping him. Especially that he got Juliet and Sawyer to help. But did they succeed? I don’t think that they did. On the surface it seems like they might have. They planned to take a nuclear weapon to the site of the incident at the time when it happened (as planned by Daniel) and they did exactly that. But I still think that whatever happened, happened and that their actions actually set up the situation they found themselves in back in the future (2004).

What would have happened if they hadn’t done what they did? Well, Radzinsky would have drilled into the pocket of electromagnetism and I guess it would have sucked everything in, right? They might have all been killed. It goes back to a question I asked a long time ago when I was discussing the incident in a theory (although I came to the wrong conclusion). The question was “how the hell do they get the Swan Station and the protocol set up in time to avert complete disaster if the electromagnetic build-up reaches crititcal mass in only 108 minutes?”. I thought that it meant that the DHARMA Initiative knew ahead of time what would happen and caused the incident on purpose. This obviously isn’t the case. However, they would have been screwed if the Pasties hadn’t shown up! They would have had no way of plugging that leak and all hell would have broken loose!

So that’s what would have happened. But what actually did happen? Radzinsky is going ahead with the drilling despite the warnings from Sawyer and Dr. Chang. He drills into the pocket and things are going very badly but then the Pasties show up with a nuclear weapon. They attack the DI crew just as everything metal starts getting sucked into the hole. My, oh my! However will we stop this!?! The Pasties toss their thermonuclear weapon into the hole’ and nothing happens. Fighting continues and Juliet gets pulled down into the hole in one of the most gut-wrenching scenes on the show thus far. At the bottom of the hole she detonates the nuclear weapon, sealing the breach.

So they succeeded but did their plan work? I don’t think so. Radzinsky escaped and he really seemed determined to conduct his work. Before the Pasties showed up his experiments were doomed. He could drill into the pocket but it would be disastrous. Now though, he has some important information. He knows what he’s dealing with so he can come up with a protocol to safely dissipate the electromagnetism so he can work with it. He also knows how to seal the breach in case he needs to in an emergency. So he builds the Swan, puts the button pressing protocol into place, places a thermonuclear device in the hole, covers it with cement and attaches the detonator to the failsafe key.

So the Pasties have created exactly the situation they were trying to prevent. They prevented the disaster that the incident could have been by enabling the DI to put into place the protocols that will one day be briefly ignored by Desmond causing Flight 815 to crash on the island.

So what’s going to happen next? I think that the Pasties will flash (or have flashed already) back to 2007. They are the ‘they’ that Jacob says are coming. They are his chosen ones. What are they going to do when they get there? I don’t know. I think that Juliet will be like Desmond. Given the scenario I described above, Juliet has gone through exactly the same thing Desmond went through when he turned the failsafe key. We don’t know how he survived but he did. Whether she’ll be naked or not remains to be seen but you all know how I’m leaning on that one πŸ˜‰

Speaking of Jacob’s chosen ones’ there are two characters who have played important roles in recent events, each in a different time period who Jacob has never spoken to (as far as we know). These two are Juliet and Ben. Juliet changes her mind and decides to help Jack which is why Sawyer is helping him which is probably why Jack has everyone helping him. If that isn’t a sufficiently significant contribution she’s the one who detonated the bomb. Why? She gave up and lost her faith in her love for Sawyer. She has no faith that what they have can work because of her parent’s divorce. She believes that all relationships eventually fail and that love is not enough to keep people together. Her flashback to that scene was one of the few (or the only) flashbacks in this episode that didn’t feature Jacob showing up to fix something or to make the character feel better. He ignored Juliet and for that she later lost her Faith. The other character is Ben whos significant act was to kill Jacob. He did it because Jacob has been ignoring him all his life even though Ben dedicated all of his actions to Jacob. Jacob ignored him and in the end, for that, he lost his faith and was easily seduced by the Fake Locke/Nemesis/Rival/Decepticon. What does that mean, I’m not really sure. I think it may be the point from this episode most worthy of discussion.

Thoughts? Comments? Donations?

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285 thoughts on “The Incident Revised! Now with less Jean-Claude Van Dam!

  1. Yeah, guess it’s possible that he was talking about Desmond and Penny… but I don’t see how those two are significant in that way.

  2. Yes. It IS the part of the episode most worthy of discussion. It is what I mentioned on your other post as ‘the pivotal scene.’ It is what I am actually taking time to write a theory about. But maybe we’ll just talk about it here.

    It’s all about perspective. (I think I say that about once a week on here, and it’s finally going to pay off.)

  3. I know it goes along with some stories from religious writings like Cain and Abel.

    Abel presented his gift to God and it was accepted but Cain offered his gift and it was rejected. The gift was rejected because God could see the sin in Cain’s heart. While Ben has done plenty for Jacob and the island it could be (and I think its maybe a little obvious) that Ben has been doing this with the expectation of some kind of reward later. So Cain responds by confronting his brother and killing him in jealousy.

    In response, God makes a law against murder… or, in other words, a rule. There’s also a part of the story involving the burial of dead bodies (something we’ve seen hinted at on the show)… This would be the start of that tradition since I think Abel was the first human ever to die…

  4. Lets see if I can do it justice in summarization without all my key points:

    Remember the scene where Ben tells Jack, “I find a tumor in my back and days later a spinal surgeon falls out of the sky…?” At that point, Ben probably would have said that Jacob, the great man, brought Jack to him.

    Whatever the heck we call Jacob’s ‘rival’/nemesis/opposite – The Other Guy…. he spun it the way that all good deceivers, manipulators spin things. “Poor you, Ben, poor forgotten Ben…”

    When in reality, for all the terrible things that Ben did…did he really have it so bad? In his mind he did, because he lost power and control. It was easy to forget all the other provisions.

    (And speaking of forgetting…how about the almost presumable situation that it was Jacob who saved/healed Ben the first time when he was shot? Ben doesn’t know this, of course, but it all depends on what you want to hear and when you want to hear it.)

    The Other Guy via Locke twisted and used this, even though when Ben ‘had’ power and control, he really wasn’t complaining.

    I have a whole different but connected set of thoughts related to the fact that EVERYONE WAS WORKING TOGETHER in the Swan shootout. Watch that dialogue with Jacob and The Other Guy and tell me that it’s not one of the most significant things about where we are headed for Season 6. πŸ™‚

  5. Those are more good thoughts on that Cain and Abel discussion Highbrow. Ben did have expectations.

    The thing about ‘rules’ – especially looking at the law against murder – is that bottom line it is a heart and power issue. Too things that Ben kinda has working against him, for example. It doesn’t mean he was irredeemable, he just bought into the deception that he deserved more, and that he could take what he wanted.

    Remember Bram telling Miles…all the money in the world won’t fix your problems…the hole in your heart….? Sure it was cliche, but we have lines like this that plainly tie together the tension the characters face in light of the Jacob & The Other Guy’s discussion.

  6. Everyone was on board with it. Five minutes earlier, Sawyer was knocking the crap out of Jack. Hours earlier, Kate was telling Jack how he was crazy and right up to the point of their conversation she was against him doing it.

    Miles, even MILES, threw out the best line, “Maybe Jack causes this…maybe we should do nothing…Glad you guys have thought this through!” He was out there helping Jack.

    And Pierre Chang held the gun to Radzinsky (wish he would have pulled the trigger)…

    They all helped Jack…in other words, they all believed…

    They disproved The Other Guy’s “they come, they battle, it’s all the same…”

    They proved Jacob’s “Until the real End, everything else is Progress.”

    The proved Jacob’s subtle line to Ben/”Locke” in referencing his tapestry…(paraphrase) “Isn’t it beautiful? Sometimes one thread takes a long time to make, but it’s worth it.”

    I guess that’s what I mean. πŸ˜‰

  7. Ben was actually redeemed! He went to see the smoke monster to be judged and he was found worthy of life. He rejected his redemption and killed Jacob because of the caveat that was added to the deal. You can live but you must do exactly as John Locke tells you. In other words, you can live Ben but you are no longer in charge. That’s not good enough for Ben.

  8. It’s not good enough for Ben, you’re right. And, I’m not convinced that Smokey and The Other Guy operate separately. I would actually lean toward The Other Guy having an inkling that Ben got spared and was directed to follow Locke.

    I don’t think Ben was necessarily ‘redeemed’ though. I know, I’ll take heat for that. It’s just too soon to say if Smokey’s intentions with Ben were correlated to the master plan, of Mr. “You Don’t Know What I’ve Been Through” to get to the point of using Ben to kill Jacob.

  9. Great! I see it as them actually giving up on changing things. Jacks mission was to undo everything that had happened to him. The good along with the bad. But even Jack, at one point before he actually headed to the Swan Station, looked like maybe he was having second thoughts about it. I think the lesson is about acceptance and regret. Things happen. Bad things and good things. Those things that we experience make us who we are and each thing is a gift.

    In the end, Miles tells that that this is retarded and he’s right! Up to that point they were fighting to do exactly what Ben did when he killed Jacob. They were fighting in order to reject the gift that is the lives they’ve lived, the relationships they’ve made, the loves they’ve found… And why? Miles says basically “screw it, lets just go along and see what happens” and that’s what they do. And it turns out, I think, that what happened is exactly what needed to happen in order for all of the events that have shaped their lives to happen.

    I’m curious… since it was Miles of all people who brought it up… I know he’s been Mr WHH all along… but I wonder if someone said something to Miles. Someone not really living.

  10. Ben’s redeemed/not redeemed status is going to depend on what we find out about the smoke monster. Was that Jacob or Otherguy that Ben confronted? If it was Jacob I’d say he was redeemed. If not I think he was tricked.

  11. I don’t think so. Nobody argued with Miles when he basically said that what Jack was trying to do was dumb becauses whatever heppened is going to happen so Jack is only going to be a part of it and things will be the same.

  12. I know we’re simoposting…

    But I do think it’s interesting that Smokey gave Ben the flashbacks to his ‘good’ moments, and his pain, revealing Ben’s heart

    …AND THEN, Alex appeared with that statement about Locke.

    It’s not clear. Agreed.

  13. Right. Ben received visions of the good and bad of his life. Good and bad, they’re all the things that make him who he is and he should see them all as gifts. The fact that he still loses his faith in Jacob shows that he was rejecting all of that. All he can see are the things that Jacob DIDN’T give him.

  14. So then, it’s not really a lesson of acceptance and regret based on what the characters are believing at the moment they are choosing to get Jack’s back. ?

    Which is what I thought interrupted that Miles moment…is the appearance of Phil & co….so they all went to help Jack…they all believed that they could work together to make something happen…and I think they all believed it would work, especially based on their tears/expressions and Sawyer’s “this don’t look like LAX…” line.

  15. True, I forgot about that line. Maybe by that he meant “see Jack? You really are an idiot!”.

    You know what would be funny? If they weren’t in 2007 but were really in 2004. Jacob says “they’re coming” and flight 815 breaks apart right above them!

  16. I’m re-reading your comments…because I probably sound like I’m disagreeing somehow on what they were doing. I just saw it as them working together, which means that they all believed in something that wasn’t what they were inclined to believe in…”a leap of faith” of sorts… I don’t see it as giving up on changing things…I think they believed they could change some things that in their hearts, they didn’t really WANT to change, but believed in the greater good, and believed Jack and his “nothing has ever felt so right” demeanor.

  17. Our conversation is the epitome of the issue…perspectives. What I believe to be hopeful or positive is where you are cynical. πŸ˜‰

  18. (BTW – I think their expectation that they would flash into the very moment of the plane headed to LA is rather odd…especially given that Kate and Jack experienced 2004-2007.)

    Anyway, that’s not really important. They had to believe something in order to go along with it all…

  19. Yeah, perspectives are very important. I’m a cynical person and you’re obviously seeing that in my view of the events we’ve seen on the show.

  20. Isn’t a cynic an idealist who has been disappointed or hurt one too many times? πŸ˜‰

    Don’t worry, we can analyze the show and not you. But this is the very thing that will get people headed in the direction of their theories or ideas for the next year. Obviously like I’m choosing to believe that Jacob represents good. And if I’m wrong, at the end of the day, oh well. πŸ™‚

  21. Well, I think they realized that no matter what they did or didn’t do, things were going to happen the way they happened. Whatever they do, that’s what they’re supposed to do. So they have a choice and they decided to help Jack because he’s their friend and if it doesn’t matter then why not help him? That’s what friends are for.

  22. “I’ll be on your side forevermore…”

    Okay, I have to jet for a bit. I think I could talk Lost a lot today.

    But I have one last little nugget to consider that I was working into my ‘theory’ (thoughts) on Jacob…

  23. Remember what Jacob told little Katie with her rad NKOTB lunchbox?

    “You’re not going to steal anymore, are you?” (Nosepinch.)

    That little, important nugget came back as her reason for getting on 316 to go back to the island. Because as Cassidy helped Kate to acknowledge…Kate ‘took’ (stole) Aaron. And so Kate decided to give Aaron to who he belonged to. His grandmother at least.

    As people have noted, Jacob’s encounters with the 815ers involved physical contact, giving them something and also speaking to them about a particular situation…

    Kate’s is just one example of how that little nugget of what Jacob said reveals more to their purposes and path toward redemption.

  24. I know, I’m selfish. I’m going to the gym, to the store, probably gonna grab some coffee. But remember, it’s not even 10am yet for me, so I still have lots of time today. πŸ˜‰

    You’ll be fine. You might actually get some work done or at least master a new computer game! Oh and we can work on your hurts and issues later. πŸ™‚

  25. Ive actually been trying to cook something up in regards to Ben being ignored by Jacob, but am a few ingredients short of a recipe…so since you mentioned it, Ill put some speculation here…

    I think its possible that Ben did NOT get ignored by Jacob, he just may not remember…You said in your previous post about Locke seeming possibly dead before touched by Jacob, to which I disagreed with until rewatching the scene…NOW, with that in mind, I cant help but wonder how Ben was saved by Richard, the only other one we know for sure was ‘blessed’ by Jacob with an ability to heal with the exception of the incident…
    Could he have been taken to Jacob as a child, healed, and forgotten about it?
    If so, it could make Jacobs “What about you?” line hold a different meaning…
    Nothing for sure, just wanted to throw it out there as a possibility..

  26. AES, that was exactly what I was referring to about 30 comments ago….that Jacob was responsible for healing Ben when Sayid shot him. And that Ben would have no memory of it now has multiple implications, including that he wouldn’t know that it was jacob he owed his life, too. However, if Ben had been patient or willing to listen and not so overcome with jealousy and anger, he might have had the opportunity to discover that. But, he gave in to his dark side. It doesn’t mean that he won’t find out…after all, Ricardos is still very much alive and will know about that incident.

    I’ve got a lot ‘cooking’ about Ben and Jacob…it is now one of the best examples of someone choosing to believe something about their circumstances…

    We have also seen/talked about it with Jack and his dad. Jack needed that ‘push’, blamed his father for not believing in him, but can see that Christian put it back on Jack… some of that ‘reverse psychology’ conversations of past on here.

    We saw Jacob encourage Hurley’s thoughts about whether he was crazy for getting to see his dead friends, or blessed because he got to see his dead friends!

    Just a couple of them that I think correlate….

    Looking forward to hearing yours. πŸ™‚

  27. Angus, I also think that now the discussion of “cause” becomes that much more interesting. So if we try to relate everything to being ’caused’ by Jacob or The Other Guy…it will get really, really tricky, because at that point, we are giving them that much power, like deities.

    Is a bad thing simply a bad thing or now does everything have an origin of one of those two ‘people’???

    Just answering a question with a question. (Good and helpful and all AES-like.)

  28. So you think that maybe Ben saved by Jacob but he doesn’t remember? I’ll buy that. It was Jacob who saved Ben way back when Sayid shot him and Jacob’s response “what about you?” was like a “what the hell are you talking about? Don’t you remember?”. The effect is the same though. Ben feels slighted because he doesn’t remember receiving his gift.

    Is that what you’re saying?

  29. Wait, what do you mean Ben saved Jacob?

    I think Jacob saved Ben. And I think that Jacob KNOWS that Ben doesn’t remember, but hasn’t been too quick to offer the information to Ben, because Ben has free will, Ben has had a series of choices and actions that have revealed his ‘nature’….so was he ready to know that about Jacob? Apparently not.

  30. And, if Jacob actually has had foresight, knowledge, etc. of the fact that The Other Guy has been plotting and planning this all along, then in a way, Jacob had to let Ben wrestle with his choice. Which is partly why Jacob (or Richard) never told Ben that Jacob saved him. He might have actually needed to let Ben wrestle and let his jealousy get the best of him. I think that’s why Jacob looked so sad when “Locke” and Ben appeared.

  31. Oh, I guess that is what you’re saying.

    Hello, Kim. Welcome back. I forgive you for abandoning me earlier.

    I think Jacob and Bocaj got everything started but I don’t think they’ve influenced things much in the interim. I think they might be kind of having an experiment and the Losties are the test subjects.

  32. Did I contribute to your cynicism? Is it abandonment issues that caused you to be the way you are?

    Nice name for The Other Guy. πŸ™‚

    I kind of agree with you and kind of don’t. But I guess it depends on what your definition of ‘started things’ and ‘interim’ is…

    I don’t know if it’s an ‘experiment’ in an Eloise the lab rat kind of way… I think it’s much bigger. Remember, the ‘progress’ part of their conversation when Black Rock was making its way there? I don’t think the Losties are simply test subjects…otherwise, the crux of the (perceived) battle, the “I want to kill you” motivations, would not be so huge given that the 815ers were (and I will believe) will be the key to this new turn of events between The Other Guy and Jacob. The 815ers are how The Other Guy finally killed Jacob. The 815ers will also be responsible for the battle from here on out. I don’t think The Other Guy is just going to sit back and enjoy a Jacob-less island with little concern for anything or anyone else. There’s more of a plan on his part, don’t you think?

  33. I don’t think that Bocaj killing Jacob is the central part of the story. I was thinking of the conversation they had when the Blackrock was on its way to the island. I haven’t re-watched it. I was planning on doing that tonight but didn’t Jacob admit that he brought them to the island and Bocaj was all “eh… it’ll turn out the way it always does… fighting, mud wrestling, button pressing…”. Something like that… sounded like they’ve done this before and Jacob is trying to prove something about mankind to Bocaj.

  34. And yes, Kim. I’m feeling extra co-dependent right now. I just need someone to hold me and tell me everything will be ok but my coworkers tend to get annoyed when I ask them to do it… sometimes they even complain to HR…

  35. Agreed. πŸ™‚

    But, right after that conversation is when “Bocaj” said, “Do you know how badly I want to kill you?”

    So, Jacob’s death is pretty important given that it had to obviously be set up for over 100 years.

    (The references to Narnia in my brain are perhaps overshadowing my perspective, on this one, unfortunately. So at least you know one of the influences of where I am coming from.)

  36. Well, you are military, right? There are ‘rules’ and such…so maybe just nuzzle up to someone that just gives off the right vibe.

    Everything will be okay. I won’t tell Admin on you.

  37. Hey people….

    i do love the show a lot…. been watching the episodes over n over again …. i had a theory off my own . Well In India we are in the 4 seaon … but i keep myself updated …

    I wanted to say that i think there is more to the jacob and the other guy …. i think and i m pretty sure that the other guy with JACOB was ESSAU jacobs brother ….. i have been relating this with egyptian and christian mythology and belive that their fued is the one started by their father which has been continuing so long ….. that essau had to serve jacon for being the sober gud guy and that essau wud have to fight his way through or serve …. when jacon was in egypt he sort of arranged for an agreement …..

    the rest just search for jacon in wiki … relate with egypt …and blah u’ll have urself a theory …

    hope it turns true in season six …


  38. I’ll give it a try… I have a feeling I’m going to get hit… We never nuzzled anyone when I was in the army…

    It’s not central to the theme but it seems to me that this demonstration/simulation that Jacob is putting on to illustrate his point is something that’s been done before, maybe many, many times before. The difference this time (the reason this is the instance that they built a television show around) is that this time Bocaj succeeded in killing Jacob. Now the stakes are high and maybe there’s something the Losties can do about it…

    OR… Jacob dying is part of it. Maybe Jacob looses the bet if the Losties see him die and just point and laugh and he wins if they decide to band together to defeat evil… or something like that…

  39. Yes, I think he’s hoping, counting on, the Losties banding together to overcome The Other Guy. And some of the other stuff you said, too.

    I have been trying to think of reasons why Jacob seeking out Ilana’s help ties into this; because she is a latecomer who seems pretty important. I also have been trying to play ‘devil’s advocate’ a little for my own case to be stronger, so maybe you should make a point I don’t agree with so that I can consider an alternative line of thinking!??! πŸ™‚

  40. Kate is dainty. Ben has beautiful eyes. Hurley was a ballet dancer when he was a teenager. Juliet likes to wear high-collared shirts. Desmond’s fashion sense is very masculine. Charlie was a semi-professional basketball player.

  41. I started reading these comments but I didn’t get through them all, so forgive me if this was already said. The “Other Guy” IS the black cloud. We saw him take the shape of Ben’s Daughter, and he took the shape of Locke. He only did this after they had died and there bodies where on the island. I am not sure what that means, but I also think he was taking the shape of Jack’s dad. He was the other person using the cabin like Ilana said. Thats what I got for now.

  42. Oh you’re so funny, Mr. Smartypants.

    The Ben has beautiful eyes one is probably the best. (Did Juliet get some work done?)

    And how about, Jack, he’s just awesome in every way?

  43. Aside from her implanted shoulders, Kate IS tiny…but nevermind, you said ‘dainty’. Which is why she pulled off heels and pencil skirts so well… :]

  44. Jack is a genious. I think he cheated his way through college. I actually mentioned that at one point during this last episode… something like “come on, Jack! You went to college for seven years!” I’m not sure he did… I think maybe all the times we saw him working at the hospital was bring your kid to work day.

    Jack did not impress me at all when we found that his “count to five” thing was not only not his idea but that he had acted all angry at Christian about it…

  45. You’re terrible.

    That count to five thing was pretty interesting to get the rest of the story. Yet one more account of a situation where it’s all about perspective and the other influencers. Jack was like Ben in that moment…choosing what parts of the story worked for him.

    I actually am growing a little more fond of Jack. Just a little, little, little bit. I’m awaiting his real, “count to five” moment where he can do it on his own. But maybe that was what we were supposed to believe his “nothing has ever felt so right…” line was.

    (But as much as I gave him a little, it seriously bothered me the way he gave Sawyer five minutes with no mention of Sayid. The guy plays his cards a little too close sometimes.)

    Beer and wings tonight for you?

  46. Maybe. They just opened a Buffalo Wild Wings in town and I might go check it out… Just a Tigers game on tonight though… Last night would have been a better night to go out to watch the Wings beat the Ducks in game seven. Go Wings!

    Must suck for hockey fans out your way with all the teams left being from the east… Even the Western Converence teams left are Detroit and Chicago!

  47. I forget how you are from one of my least favorite cities when it comes to sports. Too bad for you.

    The only time I really like to watch hockey is now, so it’s not terrible that we don’t have a team. Being the sports junkie I am, I have to draw the line somewhere…otherwise I wouldn’t have time for things like TheoriesonLost or my other borderline addictions.

  48. I always have fun weekends! I’m hoping for a Celtics win and I have a hate-hate relationship between Lakers and Rockets, so that’s dismal. No Tiger this weekend, which is a little bummer, since I kind of wish he was my BFF. Instead, we have 86 degrees on the forecast, which I think will involve grilling something. And I’m going to try really hard not to think about Lost too much. It’s going to need to be rationed now that I could conceive and birth a child before the next episode airs. That’s ridiculous. And I’ve done it already between seasons.

  49. Oh, so not a Wings fan then? Or a Tigers fan? Or a Lions fan? Lions fans are hard to find but I proudly count myself as one of them, no matter how much they suck! I know you hate them for what they did to Joey…

  50. Not a Tigers fan. NOT a Lions fan. I can be a Wings fan, since they beat the closest team to me.

    It’s okay to support a team despite their massive inabilities to be successful. Oh I just realized, we could talk smack the ENTIRE NFL season before another Lost epsiode!

    That’s really the list of things we should put in fun: All the things you could do before Lost airs another episode…

  51. I’m headed to a beer tasting tomorrow and probably golfing on Sunday if the weather cooperates. No plans to think about Lost this weekend… I’ll save that for work time. I recently got a new job though (same company, different building) and it won’t allow me to spend much time at all (if any) doing any Lost theorizing during work.

    So beer, golf, yard work… should be a fun weekend… Sunday should be sunny, around 60 degrees… a perfect day if you ask me… most people thinks its too cold but I’ll be playing golf in shorts…

  52. Beer tasting/festivals can be fun. Too bad for you that yours will be second rate to what Portland offers. πŸ˜‰ And our newest local golf course kicks some serious a.

    New job? Good? How can it be good if you actually have to work and can’t Lost theorize? πŸ˜‰ Is it one of those situations where your web connection only lets you visit real news websites? I know some people who have that, but they can still get to E online…because the latest celebrity gossip is important. ha.

  53. Ya good luck with that one.

    Your odds are about as good as Jack’s ability to get them all on 815 and make the last five seasons of Lost ‘never happen’.

  54. People will be able to see what I’m doing. Here people can’t see my screen… they hear my typing and think I’m super busy!

    Come on, don’t disrespect the beers here! There’s good ones! I won’t exactly be drinking bud light!

  55. You need to program a ‘boss button’ like CBS does for March Madness?

    I’m sure you have good beers…I do like trying new ones, so if you tell me one you think I could find out here, I’ll try it.

  56. If I find any good ones tomorrow I’ll let you know… I can’t think of any that I really like that are available outside of the area…

  57. Again I post a theory too late and its still not even been posted yet because of the delay. But i will mention it here, I agree with the initial post in that whatever they did in 1977 actually causes the chain of events to occur instead of breaks the chain… MIles, one of the smartest characters (and biggest smart-ass, besides Sawyer) brought this up right before the plan was to proceed, mentioning that what if Jack and his plan actually cause the events instead of preventing them, which I definitely think is the case. This means that everything that happened will happen BUT the events of 2007 have not happened yet and watch out b/c ‘They’re coming!”

  58. It’s about time for me to get the heck out of hear… got a long drive home… It’s been great talking with you! I love the discussions that eventually come to a “yes”. Later!

  59. That’s the difference my friend…national distribution….I believe we have some with national distribution…Do tell though.

    I’m glad we’ve turned your theory into something so riveting for all the theorists…

  60. Thanks for hosting HB. You were good today. I think it was you agreeing with my, “They’re coming” yesterday which helped your cause. πŸ˜‰ But seriously, it was fun.

    Have fun with all your plans! Hasta.

  61. Carpie…if you slog through all the comments, you’ll see that some of us agree…so I’m sure your theory will post eventually, and I’ll check it out!

  62. Jacob set up the Rival. Smokie’s his and he egged Ben on to ‘do it’. It’s interesting the Rival says THEY battle – then tells Jacob how much he wants to kill him. Reflecting, perhaps?

    It’s progress and God love you, as he loved Jacob.

  63. I agree with you about Juliet becoming a Desmond-like character. That was the first thing I thought of. It wouldn’t really make sense if she wasn’t, given that she experienced virtually the same phenomena that Desmond did.

    I will be so upset if she’s dead!

  64. Hey Kim it would pretty much suck if all the causes could be related back to Jacob and the Other. I was thinking that with Ben though The Other might have had a hand in causing the illness to seed doubt into Ben. We know both Jacob and Bocaj have been setting things up just so for quite a while.

  65. Hey Angus. It’s a tough thing to explain – if we try to account for everything having come directly from Jacob or The Other Guy… it definitely takes “free will” and human choice to a different kind of conversation…

    As an example, what’s the difference between Ben getting a tumor and Juliet and Goodwyn’s affair being devastating to Harper or Charlie drowning? (Just some quick random scenarios…)

    Perspective is important and ties into how we could ‘make’ Jacob or The Other Guy responsible for it all…if we want to blame or if we want to find fault or even just be thankful. It’s more complicated than one or the other of them.

    Like Rose and Bernard… Sawyer was all, “I could have done something for you!” (as if they were in a bad situation) and R & B chose to be content and thrilled with their situation … so at that point, if The Other Guy is bad, do we ‘blame’ him for them being stuck by themselves on the island in 1974-77? Or if Jacob is good do we thank him for keeping them safe on the island from 1974-77?

    Just my thoughts….

  66. This is actually several questions on the nature of the “entities” and of Richard, and some reasons for the questions.

    How could Jacob Be Good If:
    He was instructing the “Others” to kidnap children, or to do any number of other evil things, like mass murder etc.

    Was Jacob instructing the “Other’s” at all?

    Perhaps Ben had always been unwittingly receiving instructions from the ImpostorOfTheDead.

    Richard was the only one with access to Jacob, and forwarded messages and instructions to Ben. Did Richard know who the messages came from?

    If Richard knows the messages are from the ImposterOfTheDead, why does he have such easy access to Jacob?

    It seems that Richard Is very stupid, or a dupe of the “entities” or perhaps he’s brilliant strategist, or maybe he’s one of the few “innocent” people on the island.
    Or maybe he’s one of the same kind of beings as Jacob and the Impostor who knows them both, but doesn’t want to take a side in their fight.

    Did Richard ever kill anyone? I never saw him personally do anything evil, but he actually seemed shocked when others did. But he’s an “advisor” to many people who seem very evil.

    Did Richard actually give Ben messages from Jacob or the Impostor, or did he merely lead Ben to where they would be found, never knowing who the messages were actually from?

    Some theories point to Biblical concepts. I don’t think, by any means, that this is what Lost is about, but maybe the writers are incorporating some of this in the story.

    In Genesis the name Jacob means “deceiver”… However God chose the “deceiver” instead of Esau (the dupe) to be the father of His people.
    Another thing said in that old book is that Satan (also called deceiver) can present himself to man as an “angel of light” meaning he will seem attractive, trustworthy, noble, etc.
    Exact quote “12And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with us in the things they boast about. 13For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. 14And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 15It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.” – Paul of Tarsus

    Another name for Satan is The Accuser meaning he’s always accusing man before God “for the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God.

  67. To respond to a comment from above I don’t think that the smoke monster is under the control of either Jacob or his buddy. These two are bound by the same rules Ben and Charles were/are bound by and there must be something around to enforce those rules and I think the smoke monster is there to keep them in line just like everyone else.

    I do think that the story of those two is a parallel to Cain and Abel, even though I’m positive it’s not actually supposed to be Cain and Abel. And so I’m not really sure about the good vs. evil thing. It sure seems that way but if you look at the story of Cain and Abel, Abel was good but Cain wasn’t really evil. He committed the first murder, sure… but he wasn’t evil. The story of those two goes on with Cain feeling genuine remorse for his actions and accepting his punishment. He wasn’t evil. Jealous and misguided, yes… but not evil.

  68. Look what happens when you are gone for the weekend. Your theory is on the what, 3rd page or something?

    You should somehow let Dabs know that you agree with her about Smokey.

    Your thought on the difference between evil and ‘making a bad choice’ (in Cain’s case: murdering his brother) is an interesting distinction. I made some comment somewhere today (Anti-Jacob theory maybe?) that the grey area is becoming that much more important…perhaps even the point of tension given how much “black and white” we’ve been ‘groomed’ to focus on.

  69. Yeah, maybe Locke was wrong about black and white, light and dark and they’ve been bringing it up just to keep us focusted on it. There definitely is gray area. Cain killed Abel which one might take as simply cut and dry, it’s wrong. But God made a rule against killing people and he extended that specifically to Cain. Yes, he screwed up and let his emotions and jealousy get the best of him but he also felt remorse for what he did. He didn’t say “yeah, I killed him, so what?”… Being evil is one thing… being misguided or just dumb is another.

    And yeah Kim… There have been a ton of theories posted since the finale! A lot of them are two-three liners though… not all of them, but some.

  70. highbrow, I do not believe Locke was wrong about light vs dark, black vs white. That is the entire theme in Lost, if anything, IMO.

    Given that in life that nothing is simply black or white, there are some grey areas. It is those ‘grey areas’ that Lost is exploring.

    If Lost turns out to be about Cain and Abel, or any other biblical figure, that will be the day I change my screen name to ‘dadudeishere’.

  71. I don’t think it will be about Cain and Abel. I think there is a parallel to that story though just like there are to so many other stories. The show isn’t going to be about ancient Egypt either, that doesn’t stop people from posting 100 theories about it every day!

    When I said Locke was wrong what I meant was that he was discounting the grey areas. He says “black and white” but things aren’t that cut and dry… and if Lost is about exploring the grey areas then Locke definitely was wrong.

  72. highbrow, nice to have you back, and using your finer judgement.

    I thought that was what you meant about Locke, and glad you feel the same way.

    Yes, I have noted the endless theories, that will not solve the greater mysteries of the show.

    However, I think there are some theorists, who are beginning to delve into the heart of the true mysteries.

    I am convinced that knowing who the statue is, or applying any biblical name to the characters, will not solve one single mystery.

    These are metaphoric, and symbolic tools. Looking into their meanings, will help us get on the right track!

  73. Yeah, parallels between Lost and other stories are extremely obvious but I’m 100% sure they won’t go as far as to make the show actually be any of those stories. But once we identify the stories that have been used as inspirations for Lost we can get a head start on the analysis. But specifics like which of the two, Jacob and his bud, symbolize Cain and Abel and just what Egyptian god is the statue representing are not going to be useful. I just posted on another theory you commented on that I don’t think the producers even know or care who the statue is. I think they just wanted it to look Egypian and that’s it.

    The problem with this is it spawns a million two line theories or six page theories that are copy and paste jobs from Wikipeida and the rest get lost in the pile.

  74. highbrow, your thoughts and observations have been duly noted, and I totally agree!

    And, you thought it was impossible, that we would ever totally agree on anything! You little skeptic! lol

  75. No, I don’t.

    I usually like to find the least appropriate thing to say, then I say it. It’s just they way I am. It’s quite endearing.

  76. No worries. I get you. I can be your female equivalent of such inappropriate thinking, but it’s something I’ve learned to keep quiet about. I think I’ve heard one too many Adam Sandler recordings or something.

    I’m ridiculously sick (yeah, that turned out to be a greaaat weekend) so I’m just a little slow to respond today. (Had to go make my tea.)

  77. You guys are good for something around here! I just remembered the hot toddies conversation from a week ago or so…it’s almost noon. I think I will go rummage in the cabinet now…

  78. Dear Lord, Kim! You should have seen me on Sunday trying to drive home from Frankenmuth… it a three hour drive. I wanted to pull off to get something to drink just about every exit! Saturday Evening had a lasting effect… I filled up on beer, obtained a fifth of Jim and just walked around drinking that all night… Sunday morning was rough… I almost called in yesterday but I currently have -16 hours of sick time available so I dragged myself in… What did you do over the weekend?

  79. No see, I’m actually sick. Like, fever, chills, in bed for the last two days, coughing, can’t sleep…it’s all nasty and ridiculous. I hate being sick. It’s not self-induced sickness. So I had a great Saturday and then got hit with this like a freight train.

    I did see that your Wings won though.

    And the lesser of two evils, the Lakers, too…which won’t be terrible, just boring.

    And I got pretty excited for the Filly, what a way to own the boys. πŸ™‚

    Seriously. I have to make some simple syrup because I found I have just enough Bushmills for my hot toddy.

  80. The Lakers are only the lesser evil when they’re playing the Celtics.

    I make it a point never to get sick unless I bring it upon myself.

    I can’t believe they’re making me go do work this afternoon! Don’t they know I have better things to do?

    Go Wings! Repeat! There’s no way Chicago will win this series and no team in the Eastern Conference can compete with the Wings… Done deal!

  81. Oh geez. The Celtics are out…we don’t have to argue about them at least.

    Good luck with work. I actually want to do some work because I’ve been on a major Arrested Development binge session while stuck in bed…so probably should try to use my brain a little.

  82. No, I haven’t. I rarely rewatch episodes… i’m going to watch this one again though when I get a chance… probably this week sometime… maybe tomorrow so I can kind of get my Wednesday Night fix…

  83. We’re more similar than I thought. I sometimes ‘rewatch’ (I don’t even think that’s a word, oh well) between seasons, but I actually watched the finale again.

    I found myself quite creeped out by the new Locke knowing that he’s not Locke with newfound confidence. It made it a very different experience.

    The thing that really stood out to me is how that first scene actually gives it all away, so all the talk about how the producers have put things right in front of us to see, is actually dead on accurate, so now it’s a matter of piecing it back together.

    That was my take on it at least.

  84. Yeah, it’s a different show when you watch it again. I think that by not being much of a rewatcher (another new word) I’m going to get a lot of enjoyment watching the whole thing again from beginning to end after the series ends next year…

  85. In hind sight we probably should have known that Locke wasn’t really Locke. Richard definitely should have known and I got the impression that he did. But that damn Jack! Here is poor Richard, constantly being visited by people from the future! They keep demonstrating to him that they know things he thinks they can’t know! “Here’s your compass”, “I know about the bomb”, etc… then Jack comes along and he’s another of these guys from the future so Richard figures it’d be a good idea to ask him a question about this John Locke and Jack says “I wouldn’t give up on him” or something like that… so Richard goes against his instincts about “Locke” when all along he had that feeling that something just wasn’t right…

  86. How about in hindsight this conversation (paraphrased):

    MIB: “Do you know how much I want to kill you? I will find a way…”

    Jacob: “I’ll be right here waiting.”

    The entire episode then proceeds to be about resurrected “John Locke” on a mission to kill Jacob.

    Wow. Right in front of us.

  87. Yeah. I was just reading your post about Richard and I was thinking I should have left that last comment over there… I’ll do a copy and paste and join that conversation…

  88. Well, if you didn’t live way over there you could be online during normal hours! You probably just finished lunch and I’m getting ready to go home from work! Just remember that whatever comments you make tonight I’ll be here to respond to in the morning…

  89. You’re just jealous. You know how much cooler the west coast is. It’s okay, I understand.

    Oh and I didn’t eat lunch today. I’m in bed. I had toast. Yipee.

  90. I’ve been out to the west coast only once (not including layovers) and I wasn’t impressed. To be fair I think I’d love Oregon and Washington for the same reasons I love living in Michigan… but since west coast my experience over there includes the Grayhound Station in Los Angeles I fear I may be hopelessly and perminently biased against it.

    Plus living here I know that when the war over fresh water starts we’ll be in a much more comfortable position over here…

  91. If you could hear my voice you would feel sorry for me and you would not yell at me to get out of bed. So there.

    And yes, the Grey Hound station in LA does not exactly qualify your opinion of the West Coast to be valid. Portland has been stalked by the NY Times lately, everyone wants to talk about how great Portland is…so just pipe down over there.

    I’ve seen “Roger and Me” – so should I say that I know all about Michigan? πŸ™‚

  92. I’m sorry, Kim. Last time I was sick I ate a double bacon cheeseburger and mowed the lawn. Felt great the next day.

    What’s Roger and Me?

  93. You are such a turd sometimes. The thought of a double bacon cheeseburger makes me want to vomit. And that would be regardless if I was sick.

    And you get my point. I’m not “claiming” the LA bus station as the representation of all the goodness of the west coast, especially the Northwest.

    I seem to remember some really funny bunny scenes from a real winner out there in Flint. Come on, you’ve got to watch it sometime.

  94. I’m wure Oregon and Washington are quite lovely but I think the LA Bus Station is representative of all of California at least and that makes up most of the west coast. But what do you expect when you have a state filled with hippies and a government run by actors.

    I’ve been called a turd before… you’re right, I can be. But I don’t smell like one at least! Just trying to help…

  95. No no no. San Diego is Awesome. Santa Barbara, Napa Valley…wonderful. But I think this is you being a turd so I will stop trying to convince you how wrong you are and just be content knowing how right I am. Everyone’s got ugly near them somewhere and we can agree on that.

    I’m glad you don’t smell like a turd. It sounds like your co-workers already have to put up with enough from you.

  96. My co-workers love me. They have to because I’m senior and they need me to answer their questions every ten minutes. Maybe smelling like a turd would get me some peace and quiet…

    We all have ugly nearby, yes. We have Flint and you have California. Washington and Oregon are places I’d absolutely love to visit some day though…

  97. The Northwest is a lot like the island, people come and visit and seem to always come back. It’s that good. Or strange. Portland has a big “Keep Portland Weird” thing going on. Whatever, I just like the beach = 1 hour west. The mountains = 1 hour east. (And you still haven’t been able to sell me on any Michigan microbrews.)

  98. Over 20% of the worlds supply, baby! Someday fresh water will be near impossible to come by so I like the idea of living right near so much of it. Drinking salt water is just going to kill you… plus they got all that oil they keep spilling in it…

  99. You are not only a turd but a goofball. Way to be proud of your proximity to freshwater. That is one of the funnier things I’ve heard today. (But I have yet to pacify my sick miserable self by watching Arrested Development, so you’ll eventually get some competition.)

    Okay, I just read a review of one of your beers, the wheat Oberon. It sounds good. I’m usually not a fan of a lot of reds…which is slightly ironic to read…but anyway. Your other ones are nearly impossible to track down online. That’s never a good sign.

  100. My sister, a perpetual “guest” here just sent me a little note that said, “k i know chuck norris jokes are a little dated (and have rightly been replaced by kate’s shoulders) but i couldn’t help but share this with you…” wow. you’re famous.

  101. I’m harmless! I’m just trying to get a good measure of my fame. Fame is based in part on the attractiveness of those with whom you are famous. You should know that West Coast…

  102. Oh geez. Now I have to resort to really thinking about what I say. I had to do like three re-writes to figure out how to say something about you not needing to get a bigger ego.

    Nice definition of how fame is measured. Too bad you’re trying this on a site where you are represented by South Park.

  103. I’m kind of anti-fame really, although I’m sure you get the sense that fame will inevitably find me someday…

    Please don’t take that seriously.

    I’m writing a book based on the dream I had last night… it’s gonna be Focke’n sweet!

  104. You could ask but I probably wouldn’t tell you. I’m keeping it totally secret. I can tell you the title though. It’s called “Life on Planet X”.

    That way when you see it on the shelf at your local Walmart for 75% off you can grab a copy.

  105. I guess that is how the author of the “Twilight” series got inspired. And six months later, famous. And rich.

    No premise to reveal even?

    Is JoeArtistWriter your alter ego here?

    No, he’s too much of a nice guy idealist.

  106. No, I think you can see the difference between his wrap ups and mine…

    I was originally thinking that this would be a short story but as I was thinking about it on the way to work this morning the more I was thinking of it as a full novel. I’ve never written a novel before but I love writing and I’m looking forward to trying it.

    There are two specific things I want to do before I die. One is to appear on Jeopardy and the other is to publish a book.

    It’s a sci-fi comedy with a clever title that doesn’t mean what you think it means… It involves space travel… most of it isn’t really planned out yet because it’s a comedy so it’s going to kind of flow as I’m writing it from one thing to the next…

  107. Tell me if you are on Jeopardy. (My sister and I want to go on Wheel of Fortune together…but we wouldn’t scream. Jeopardy is too ambitious because I’m terrible, TERRIBLE at history and geography.) Publishing a book is on the list too. That’s funny.

    Sci-fi comedy. I’m not sure I’ve ever read sci-fi comedy. I’d probably know if I did, right?

    You going to write it during this off season?

  108. I was thinking of starting this weekend after I’ve given myself a few days to let it stew in my brain.

    I plan on going back to school soon so maybe I can get on college Jeopardy… that’s not so hard… Wheel of Fortune would be fun! I’d scream… it’d be a loud, obnoxious, greatly exaggerated scream… and I’d hop in place while I screamed…

    Well, it’s just about time to go home… my daughter and I have our Wednesday dinner date tonight.. we’re going to Rob Evens (it’s her turn to choose and she calls it Rob Evens for some reason)…

  109. Good for you on all that stuff…writing, going to to school, being smart enough to con your way on to College Jeopardy…and taking your daughter out. At least you don’t have to hurry home to a new episode. Rob Evens?

  110. Well, I have to hurry home for Rob Evans which is what my daughter calls Bob Evans… I see now that you don’t have Bob Evans out there… huh. Too bad. It’s the home of homestyle.

  111. Nope. No Bob Evans. Man, you got it all…homestyle…fresh water…wow.

    Have fun!

    I’m convinced I’m going to feel better tomorrow. Thanks for the company today.

  112. I’m up. Barely.

    (But what you don’t realize is that unless I am sick and in bed I don’t get to hang out here all day because three days of doing next to nothing means three days of a lot of other things not getting my attention.)

    We’ll see what happens today. It’s still early. I am better than yesterday, but still don’t have a voice.

    Oh, did you only watch part 1 or the whole thing?

  113. We ended up running errands after dinner last night and I didn’t get ot the computer to watch until after 11… so I only watched Part I. I’ll watch the rest tonight.

    Glad you’re feeling a bit better today… I’m looking forward to another complete day of talking Lost with you… if you don’t have time to finish your work just blame me and feel free to have people call me.

  114. Oh you’re so funny.

    For some reason, as much as of a coffeesnob as I am, it hasn’t been what I’ve wanted with this round of illness. But yes, I do have a few cups made and ready in case it sounds good.

  115. Yeah, kind of… but then again yesterday was too… we were short handed and things just kept coming up… I’m trying to ignore things today…

  116. Wow, I’m slow on the response time today. I’ll wake up, drink my coffee, maybe get out of the house for a bit…you have fun with your meeting. πŸ˜‰

  117. No soup. Yes, I specifically went and bought Sprite actually. And more Ricola and Nyquil. I’m making it. I just get laughed at when people call me. And at Starbucks they couldn’t understand my drink order. But hey, I got out of the house! All while you have been “working”…

  118. Yeah, yeah… ha ha… I’m quite comfortable here in my cubicle, thank you very much… Re-imaging a machine with an audiobook in my ear, theorizing about Lost… Even though you abandoned me for a while earlier… I tracked the Tigers game on for a while… Had a meeting where some funny stuff happened… It’s been a decent day…

  119. ESPN’s Bill Simmons. The BS Report. He’s ripping Jack apart this season. And Sun. They said “she stopped using the performance enhancing drugs this season.” Oh that made me laugh.

  120. I’m very intellectual. Can’t you tell? I didn’t know Bill Simmons did commentary on Lost. If he mentions Kate’s delts I’m going to sue.

  121. Our conversations are much better than theirs has been. But they’ve covered EVERYthing….

    Even suggested Greybeard was connected to the Polar Bears.

    I think Gus reads this board…so don’t be surprised.

    BS said with all the holes this season, the biggest is that Jack blew up the island to try to get back together with Kate. Well, when you put it that way…

  122. No no…he said, “If it’s our destiny…” like, “maybe if we end up in LAX and she’s all handcuffed and going to prison…and we don’t know each other…we’ll still find our way to be together it’s supposed to happen.”

    Yes, you have to listen to this at some point.

    To steal one of their questions: MVP of the show?

  123. Hmmm… MVP of the show? Juliet.

    So Jack is like Penny Hardaway because he was good when he played for one team then he sucked after he switched? Did Jack ever play for the Magic?

  124. The people who know me best know I’m a dork, but this Lost Theories obsession….yeah, it has taken me to a new level. Other people I know when asked “Timewasting Guilty Pleasure?” say “America’s Next Top Model…” and stuff like that. Yeah well. I’m here.

  125. A little while ago I met up with a friend I haven’t seen in years… After we’d hung out several times I asked him if he watched Lost… he said yeah, he watches… I said “you know those crazy people who go online and theorize and discuss and argue the show? I’m one of them…”

    He’s been on here reading theories… I don’t know how often he comes on…

  126. Right… Penny played for the Magic and I liked him… he was one of my favorite players. Then he went to the Suns (right?) and I instantly lost interest. Jack was cool then he decided to be lame.

    Yeah, Juliet. She’s had just as much impact as anyone else but in a shorter amount of time. She has awesome taste in shirts and she’s detonated a thermonuclear weapon.

  127. Oh my god, it’s time to go home! I’ll check in when I get home… I need to get on the computer to download this Bill Simmons thing…

    Talk to you later!

  128. I know, it’s not the same appreciation. She is hot though. I will miss her and her freakish eyebrow/mouth expressions thing if she’s dead dead.

  129. I’ve come up with something that I think is another clue. (But not about the cabin – different topic now.)

    Christian’s appearance to Michael: “You can go now.” Who was it?

    – ND

  130. Are you speaking on behalf of the State of North Dakota now?

    Whoever that was, I think he was in the same state as Facke is now. It looked like Christian, talked like Christian, walked like Christian, probably smelled like Christian… but was it really Christian? I don’t think so. But whoever it is he does seem to know some of the things that Christian knew, the same way Facke knows some of the things Locke knew. He fooled me when he said “Say hello to my son”… I took that to mean that it was in fact the real Christian but now seeing that Facke has retained Locke memories…

    You know what, I just had a thought… We’ve seen Jacob out and about off the island, touching people and whatnot… what if Christian (the real living, breathing, drinking, Jack’s dad Christian) is and always has been Mr. Stubbles? Geez, what if when we saw Christian meeting Ana Lucia for example, he was identifying his people in the same way Jacob was? Maybe he met with Micheal at some point… I don’t know, that’s probably stretching a bit…

  131. And then to put that with an idea that we had recently that Jacob could be John and Christian’s father. Maybe it’s not Jacob but his friend…

  132. Don’t ask why. I’m awake. I have been for waaaaay too long for me who isn’t technically a morning person… but I do have a voice. Ya.Hoo.

    I think the way the Other Guy has left the island has been as visions of Christian…since Dead is Dead and we could now say that it wasn’t Christian ‘resurrected.’

    I think we could account for a bunch of stuff that we’ve seen as “the island won’t let you die” and stuff like that to fit into this bigger battle between Jacob and The Other Guy and the different ‘chess-like’ moves that were them already battling it out in a way. The Other Guy has been working his loophole angle for a long time…so it has way more to do with simply taking Locke’s form once Locke died.

    That’s also why that other scene with Richard and Kid Locke is important, too.

    I’m almost back to thinking clearly!

  133. It was amusing….nothing genius. I think he studied up by reading Lostpedia.

    Okay, I haven’t even made coffee yet, and I have way too many thoughts that need to be sorted out.

    Earlier you said, “what if Christian has always been The Other Guy”…this is what I think is really interesting. To what lengths did The Other Guy go to set up this whole plan?

    Was he always The Other Guy, or did he know the value of Jack-o to the island, and especially knowing that Jack would eventually be the key to getting everyone on the flight that would get Locke (and Facke) back to the island, too? So in order to play Jack, he used Christian.

    Or another spin on this is that he tried to use Christian initially in the same way he ended up using Locke. Because isn’t it that Christian’s body was never discovered, but the empty coffin was? Perhaps this can be accounted to The Other Guy.

  134. These are my half-developed thoughts….but something about the whole scheme of the loophole made me think that all the Christian visions need to be revisited because I do think there’s a connection to The Other Guy.

    We were given the chance to see Jacob off-island, and him setting up the “They’re coming.” move to counteract the being killed part of the loophole. (It would seem.)

    So what about The Other Guy? (Go ahead and read that using the tone of Ben, in “what about me?”)

  135. What about the other guy?

    I hope I don’t get stabbed for saying that.

    I’m trying to come up with a list of the things we know about him but my brain isn’t working at the moment…

  136. Well thankfully it’s Friday, and you don’t have anything else to do at work today, right? So you can come up with all the things that I don’t have time to think about and write some brilliant theory that explains how The Other Guy has been setting his plan in motion right before our eyes.

  137. Well, unfortunately I have a thing to prepare for on Tuesday… I’ll be working off site so I need to get everything together today and my boss went on vacation and kind of half-assed the instructions… I’m putting that off until later though…

    Have you checked your theory that we were discussing on yesterday?

  138. Probably. I like to plan and yet retain some flexibility. I think there’s a plan for the beach at least for one day. The weather is incredible and that’s all I really need.

    More beer festivals? More stumbling Highbrow?

  139. I’m taking my daugter to the driving range to start teaching her golf… she’s been bugging me for about a year now. Got a date tomorrow night… there might be some stumbling towards the end of that… Got tickets to the Tigers/Rockies game on Sunday… cookout on Monday… Good times…

  140. My four year old can crush the ball. It’s ridiculous. I wasn’t even going all Earl on him, he just loves golf. Starting them young can be fun.

    You do have a good weekend planned! Good luck with all that AND writing your book?!?

  141. Yeah, I’m starting the book tonight… you need to keep bugging me about it so I keep working on it…

    My kid is almost seven, so we’re getting a late start… but I’m still confident that she’ll go pro at 16 and start supporting me…

  142. And just think…she doesn’t even need to be that good, really…just aim for Michelle Wie style of play, and get your endorsements FIRST…and you’re set!

  143. It’s not even 9am and I have some work done and Lost thoughts explored. It’s time to shower and start my day for real. (And charge my battery. Have I mentioned how much I love my new computer, no thanks to you?!)

    I’ll be back.

  144. Did you say you got a Mac? If you had a real computer you would have had this much work done three hours ago.

    It’s noon. I’m running to Subway for some lunch…

  145. Nice try. I love my Mac. I loved my PC, too…but…here I am, when it came down to replacing it…I got a Mac.

    Hope Subway treated you right. (Wait, that’s not the right slogan, is it?)

    I am awesome today, just so you know. I haven’t felt this good in a week! I’m heading out for awhile to do selfish things, and given that you actually have work to do, it might be for the overall good. Come up with something brilliant while I’m gone. Or write your book and put it on Google Docs and share it with me. I’m a good editor, truly. (Don’t let this site fool you.)

  146. Really, you seem pretty well spoken here… I don’t notice mistakes in your comments or anything… You separate things into paragraphs and use punctuation…. I can let it go when you put the period before the parenthetical phrase (like you did at the end of your last comment there). No problem πŸ˜‰

  147. It was it’s own aside of a sentence. Doesn’t that count?

    I’m not claiming perfection, but I usually can tell you if something doesn’t make sense…so it’s “editing” beyond punctuation usage. I can be an all around useful person at times.

  148. Well then why not just leave out the parentheses and make it a sentence? I see a subject, a verb and an object…

    I’m just kidding around though. Grammar and spelling are pet peeves of mine but only if it’s terrible (there’s a lot of that on these sites)… like the theory made of one 500 word paragraph or worse, one 500 word sentence. That drives me nuts! I don’t even read those theories.

    Anyway, it’s been a pretty lonely day today… I’ve been sitting her all day long, hitting the refresh button on this site about once a minute, waiting for some conversation from you. I had a tear about a couple hours ago and my co-workers asked what was going on but I just couldn’t bring myself to tell them…

    Ok, well… that didn’t really happen…

    It’s time to go home in a minute. I’m the only one here so I’ve decided to leave early (I’m supposed to stay until 6)… later!

  149. Agreed and understood.

    That would be a rough Friday. (I went shopping. Shhh.) – See? An aside.

    Way to cut out early. Slacker.

    Have fun writing your book. And on your date. (Will you bring up your Lost addiction?) Ha. Look at that. Now you’ve got me all nervous and self-aware.

    I will have fun doing who knows what, but at least it’s not going to be pathetically sick.

  150. She’s aware of my addiction.

    I know it’s only a matter of style but I would have said:

    I went shopping (shh!)

    The other thing that gets me is when people throw in unnecessary commas… oh well… I’m a grammar nazi.

    I probably shouldn’t have told you about cutting out early since my salary comes from your tax money… Thanks for the early out, boss!

  151. It all made sense in my head how it sounded. Because if I don’t make it an aside, then I am completely turning the conversation to me rather than only dropping a little interruption about me. Which is that I went shopping.

    I am less of a grammar nazi and more of a spelling nazi. So I’ll try to strike a balance of sounding intelligent yet continually annoying you from here on out. I, sometimes, use too, many commas just, because I want to type, the way that I talk.

    I already know you slack and that I pay for it.

  152. Well, I guess it makes sense for West Coasters to, like, talk, like, you know, like they, like, like everything…

    I’m still here.. I forgot to do something…

  153. Ok, now I’m done. Later!

    Make sure you observe a moment of silence to honor the men and women who bravely gave their lives to preserve your freedom.

  154. I so do not talk like that. Never did. And if there are any accents to make fun of, it starts over there in your neck of the woods.

    I’m sitting in the sun and keep noticing all these little specks all over my computer screen. I realized it’s because I’ve been coughing up my lungs all week onto my computer. That is so disgusting. Gross. Lovely way to end our conversation for the day.

    Cheers. Find yourself a Widmer Hefeweizen and drink it this weekend.

  155. Kim, I did a ton of work yesterday… you should be proud of me. I was off site yesterday and it turns out that my boss (who is on vacation in Europe) totally screwed me yesterday. I showed up where I was supposed to be and all the stuff he told me had already been done was either not started, half done or just done wrong. So I spent the day running around trying to get things going and all the people that were there waiting were blaming me for all the problems. I didn’t get back to the office until 5:30 (I finish at 6) and found that one of my coworkers who was supposed to be covering for me didn’t really do it… so I ended up staying until 7:30 working in the dark because the government is all environmentally friendly now and most of the stuff like lights and whatnot turn off automatically at 7. And on top of all that I didn’t get to log in and comment at you at all…

  156. Wow…nothing like a work buzzkill coming off a three-day weekend. Working in the dark? At that point, aren’t you entitled to just leave? At least it is already Wednesday.

    I noticed your Tigers lost to Colorado, TWICE. Don’t they have inverted W-L records?

    How’s the book?

  157. Oh wait, was I supposed to be more sympathetic? πŸ™‚

    Just imagine that I am so I don’t accidentally tease you for actually having to work. Seriously though, the scenario you described is the kind of stuff that is maddening.

  158. I’m still waking up, so I’m a little slow on the draw…but to say you couldn’t comment at me …that was funny. It’s not talking, just “commenting”. It could rival Twitter or texting if you work it right.

  159. And I’m tempted to just keep writing one or two sentence comments TO MYSELF here on your post, just to try it out AND flood your inbox with babble.

  160. Ha ha, yeah… The Tigers are in first in the AL Central and dropped two to the basement dwelling Colorado Rockies… I was there for the second loss… pathetic… they’d won seven in a row though so they were due. Of course they really put it to the Royals on Monday…

    Sorry you’re commenting at yourself… I’m busy (again!) with work. Will it ever end!?! This is getting ridiculous! Oh, and I didn’t mean to downgrade our conversations by referring to it as commenting instead of talking…

    I did not get a chance to work on the book this weekend… Plans change, you know? You tell people you just want to sit at home and work on something by yourself and sometimes those people get upset that you don’t want to do stuff with them… geez…

  161. It’s okay to be busy at work. I indirectly pay you, right? So as much fun as it is to comment to you, it’s also good to know you have something to do other than harass all of us.

    One word: boundaries. But maybe you are a closet people pleaser, so that’s a challenging word. How are you going to ever get your “Twilight-ish” breakout if you keep pandering to the needs of others? But wait, that lady wrote the book while she was a sleep-deprived nursing mom with three kids under the age of 6 or something phenomenally ridiculous like that. (I haven’t read it so I’m really just babbling again.) So get off your duff is my point.

    Excuses excuses everywhere today from you.

  162. I just fixed a printer and made one of our VIPs computers work even though my boss the dumbass bought the wrong hardware. I am good. I also declared when I got back to my desk that I am done working for the day… then I realized it’s 5:10 and I’m going home soon anyway. Damnit.

  163. Wow, I feel like I’ve been away forever… it’s only been a few days though… I’m finally done working away from the office! Yay! Well, at least until they figure out another excuse not to do their own work… oh well…

    Yeah, we had our date on Wednesday as we always do. It was very nice… It is a little weird though not having Lost to watch after the date… Only what, about eight more months left? Geez…

  164. I almost harassed you yesterday but decided to let you off the hook. I’ll wait and see how on your game you are today.

    Yeah, you kind of have some catching up to do. But it’s Friday, and should be a nice slow day for you, right? πŸ˜‰

  165. Usually Fridays would be slow… but this is no ordinary Friday. My boss and two of my co-workers are out of the office today and the only person here with me is the one who needs help with everything… so hopefully things will go smoothly. It least it looks like I won’t have to drive over to the other base today!

  166. Oh that’s right, the European vacation is leaving you busy!

    Soon enough it will all settle down and you can get back to the important stuff…Lost ‘theorizing’, thinking about your book, listening to your books on tape, playing computer games – all under the guise of being hard at work, right? πŸ˜‰

    I’m headed to the gym. Finally getting back into it after being laid out for way too long. My Pump class the other night was brutally awesome after missing it for a week and a half. Then lunch with the office and an afternoon of choosing my own adventure.

    Hang in there!

  167. I love choose your own adventure…

    Are you sure today is Friday? I’m getting a lot of calls and my users are being especially pushy today…

  168. I’m here… just ran downstairs for some cupcakes…

    WOrk is slowing down but only because government employees work as little as possible. They’re all gone for the day and have been gone for some time…

  169. That’s funny. I made cupcakes for Friday lunch contribution today. Had to make them early though since it is a slightly too warm 87 degrees.

    Glad you found the conversation to join.

  170. We’ll see if I’m savvy enough at the moment for two different conversations. I don’t want to clog up Thorn’s theory with comments about how my cupcakes were better than your cupcakes or how awesome my new playlist is that is actually quite distracting because it’s so good. You know, the random stuff. πŸ™‚

  171. Did I provoke some competitiveness here? I suppose I’ve done that before, so I shouldn’t be surprised.

    Random funny story time. The Oregonian has a special Foodday section that comes out once a week. On the cover of last weeks edition: “Hi-brow Brownies” I just recycled it into my compost pile earlier today, but If I could put a screenshot in I would…

  172. Nice work! πŸ™‚

    However, it isn’t the same picture and large, screaming font of “Hi-Brow Brownies” that was used for the actual newspaper that you might have appreciated just a little bit more. Still, nicely done!

    And fair enough. I’m sure your cupcakes would be awesome. I think I’m done talking about a timeloop, FYI. I got nothing. (I was plenty fired up yesterday. You missed out.)

  173. Finally… it took us what? four? five comments to come to an agreement? I was getting worried.

    What were you all fired up about yesterday? Timeloops?

  174. Oh don’t get me wrong, I think YOU still have some agreeing to do. I’m agreeing with your last comment over there. Not all of them. πŸ˜‰

    No, not timeloops. Everything else. Should I have emailed you to join in the fun? And fired up can be read many different ways, I suppose. Don’t want to get myself in trouble.

  175. What theory should I be reading to get an idea of what “Fired-Up Kimberly” is like?

    I don’t usually check the email I have associated with this account here… I used to but I switched to my work email because I can get it on my Blackberry…

  176. I’ve been sounding all ranting-like all over the place. I’m sure I’ve ticked people off inadvertently. It happens, and I suppose in a forum like this it could happen even more than I mean it to.

    And no…not through the site. My little Mac surprised me the first time I wrote my own theory and started getting responses since using it instead of my PC.

  177. I read the comments… I was super pissed off by them. I can only imagine how other people felt about them. They may have had such a severe emotional response that they lost their lunch and had to leave work early for the day… I’m lucky I have such a strong constitution.

  178. I am a troublemaker, that’s true. I never have bad intentions though. People either get my humor or they don’t just like I either get their humor or I don’t. If either of us have a problem with the other than we just weren’t meant to talk, right?

    I just found a bunch of gray hairs on my chin.

  179. just out of curiosity….do youthink thatif van damme was to appear in the incident, he would have saved juliette?
    and therefore change the past?


    deh dhedhedhedhe deh DEH!!!!!!!1



  180. holy sh*t, can’t believe you logged in..good to see you man… I miss the whole just read through about half these comments..miss kimberly too

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